Hypothyroidism Support Group
Hypothyroidism is the disease state caused by insufficient production of thyrohormone by the thyroid gland. There are several distinct causes for chronic hypothyroidism, the most common being Hashimoto's thyroiditis and hypothyroidism following radioiodine therapy for hyperthyroidism. Advanced hypothyroidism may cause severe complications, the most serious one of which is...
Second visit with my endo today, it went very badly! I'm on 60 Armour and having some severe depression and an unrelenting headache that I'm about to give up on.
This is all that he said to me:
: Your TSH is 1.62 thats too low, we should decrease your dosage.
:The free t's are an outdated inaccurate way of testing, we only go by TSH.
:Thinks I am hyper now because I was upset with him. I've had an excrutiating headache for three weeks now am I am at the end, I mean I am thinking of doing uh... something drastic ( coupled with my depression I can't take it anymore!)
:Says MOOD has no bearing on thyroid! Depression is NOT part of thyroid!
: Offered me antidepressants.
:Only wanted to check my physical symptoms as in my knee reflexes and if my throat was swollen.
:If I stay on my dose I run the risk of heart attack and bone density loss.
That's all I can remember for now, I was just so shocked when he said all this to me! It goes against every single thing I have read and heard! My first visit he seemed like such a caring guy, did my T3 test even though he didn't want to, took me off Synthroid and gave me Armour when I asked him.
And now I'm stuck, he did blood work and may call me in 4 or 5 days. I'm to see him again in 6 weeks. Guess I should have made it more clear I am having suicidal thoughts. 6 weeks is too long.
This is all that he said to me:
: Your TSH is 1.62 thats too low, we should decrease your dosage.
:The free t's are an outdated inaccurate way of testing, we only go by TSH.
:Thinks I am hyper now because I was upset with him. I've had an excrutiating headache for three weeks now am I am at the end, I mean I am thinking of doing uh... something drastic ( coupled with my depression I can't take it anymore!)
:Says MOOD has no bearing on thyroid! Depression is NOT part of thyroid!
: Offered me antidepressants.
:Only wanted to check my physical symptoms as in my knee reflexes and if my throat was swollen.
:If I stay on my dose I run the risk of heart attack and bone density loss.
That's all I can remember for now, I was just so shocked when he said all this to me! It goes against every single thing I have read and heard! My first visit he seemed like such a caring guy, did my T3 test even though he didn't want to, took me off Synthroid and gave me Armour when I asked him.
And now I'm stuck, he did blood work and may call me in 4 or 5 days. I'm to see him again in 6 weeks. Guess I should have made it more clear I am having suicidal thoughts. 6 weeks is too long.
Please, please, please - call your pharmacist (and don't speak with the counter help).
Tell him/her you've been taking Armour and need to find a doctor who prescribes it.
Ask for contact info for any doctors for whom the pharmacist has filled Armour prescriptions. You are not asking for referrals no other people's personal health information so there's no legal reason why the pharmacist can't help.
Make the soonest appointment you can.
We want to celebrate your return to good health and it will happen when you find a better doctor - most likely a "non-endo".
Please hang in - you'll get through this and be so very happy you prevailed.
PS if you are seeing a psychiatrist, that could very well be a good place to start with a request for an Armour Rx.....please read this link:
http://www.jfponline.com/pages.asp?aid=4570
Do you think the endo could possibly be right and I'm hyper now? I was pretty upset when he started saying all this to me and I was probably shaking...... Though my labs say Im not!
I'm confused! I'd love to believe him and just lower my dose and be happy and headache free again soon!
FT3 4.9 (3.5-6.5)
FT4 15 (9-23)
TSH 1.62 (.35-5.00)
He only reads the TSH though, he says the Ts are outdated (?) tests.
Endos around here are very few and far between, the other one in that city follows the same guidelines, he's in the same office. Two others in the next closest city have bad reviews for being outdated too. Next city is London or Toronto and easily a three hour one way trip, and I don't drive in cities :(
This is why I am going to try a naturopath.
It's unreal how just a few months ago I'd never even heard of these drugs and now they are my whole world, and for life. Hopefully we both find were we need to be and soon.
Could I have increased my dose too fast?
June 1-30g Armour
June 7 45g Armour
June 29 60g Armour
I had read mostly that docs don't increase NDT fast enough and since I wasn't seeing mine again for eight weeks, he allowed me to increase it after one week when I called his office. The second increase almost three weeks later was solely me.
Could I have been feeling so fine on the increase of T3 that when the slower acting T4 finally stacked up I experienced this headache from hell and possible other HYPER symptoms? And if so, why didn't he recommend me to lower my dose? See if this depression and head pain would lessen any?
Most people suffering from hypothyroidism have Hashi's as the cause.
I am a Graves' patient who joined the 20% of patients who go hypo after remission....all because of Graves' blocking antibodies.
Not only do those blocking antibodies cause hypothyroidism, but they suppress TSH.
This means my TSH is below-range.
When I met endo #3 after going off anti-thyroid drugs because I was horribly hypo with low-in-the-range FT4/FT3 levels, she took one look at my suppressed TSH (.019 range .4 - 4.50) and declared me hyper.
She wanted me to go back on anti-thyroid drugs at quadruple the dose I had been taking. No thank you!!!
I found my current doctor, an internist, who told me the magic words I knew I had to hear "We know to ignore TSH in Graves'"
I have been taking T4 since 2010 and T3 since 2011....on a "good" day, my TSH is .007.
I am NOT hyper. My optimal FT4/FT3 levels are nicely in-range: FT4 near the high end of the range and FT3 in the upper third of the range...the same types of levels healthy people have **as documented in thyroid textbooks**
*True* hyperthyroidism is over-range FT4/FT3 levels....believe me, I know what they are because that's what I had when I started my thyroid disease journey.
Your TSH is high for a healthy person. If you read this link, you will see that the study determines that the mean (average) TSH is closer to 1:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16148345
And, if you read the treatment section from the Armour website that I'm linking below, you will see that Armour is indicated as a pituitary TSH suppressant in the treatment of Hashi's, goiter, nodules, etc:
http://www.armourthyroid.com/treatment.aspx
What this means is that people taking optimal doses of Armour will have suppressed (below-range) TSH.
Your endo is w-r-o-n-g WRONG with every...single...statement.
After dealing with 3 clueless endos, I gave up on them as a profession to treat my thyroid disease. It seems they are too busy taking care of diabetics to stay current in thyroid care. I didn't see a single thyroid-related item in any of their offices.....that told me something.
If you read the comments associated with the petition I'm linking below and even the general info shared on the site, you'll see just how bad things are for thyroid patients because of the blasted TSH test:
http://www.change.org/petitions/endocrinologists-patients-with-thyroid-dysfunction-demand-better-care
You are having symptoms because you need a dose INcrease...not a decrease. Doctors such as yours are those who keep people sick and prevent them from achieving wellness.
I'm glad you'll be seeing a naturopath.
Please keep us posted.
The Armour prescribing info recommends increasing by 15mg every two weeks and then labs at 4 wks.
You obviously did an extra dose increase but, you are far from hyper.
Remember, hyperthyroidism is determined by over-range thyroid hormone levels, not TSH.
HyperTHYROIDism means over-range thyroid hormone levels, not hyPOpituitaryism (if there was such a word but would mean under-range pituitary TSH levels)
I already did the math for you to show you the types of levels a healthy person would have. Your endo is ignoring this fact and is erroneously stuck on TSH.
Hopefully, now that you've read the Armour treatment guidelines, you understand that your endo is mistaken.
My first-ever thyroid forum has a mantra: Symptoms can be confusing, labs don't lie.
Since both your FT4 and FT3 levels show room for improvement, there's no way you are hyper.
Headaches/migraines also occur with hyPOthyroidism. In fact, migraines are more common in hypothyroidism.
And, just as the link I shared about the psychiatric manifestations of hypothyroidism indicates, depression is more common in hypothyroidism as well.
You need a dose increase....
www.thyroidmanager.org
There's a section on the systemic manifestations of hypothyroidism. Your endo should be familiar with this but, he's not.
There's another section about the treatment of hypothyroidism and the types of levels the doctor should achieve for the patient. Your endo should be familiar with this but, he's not.
You already have the Armour treatment info (and the prescribing info is also on the site). Your endo should be familiar with this (he IS prescribing Armour - right?) He's not.
Sorry I'm clogging your thread with posts - I think it's obvious I'm passionate about proper care.
Your endo's comments belong here:
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/give-me-a-break/
And, you belong in another doctor's office for your treatment.
Blue, you can do this! You don't have to, but you can! I am proof that it can be done. This is a hard motha freakin' world to "live" in. All we want is to be loved and healthy.
Ever since I've steered clear of taking my own life, yet again, I continue to learn so much about what really matters. And even with dealing with people in doctor's suits I continue to learn how best I can be in dealing with what comes my way.
You can do this and you have support by us.
Here for you anytime: jumpersteeth@gmail.com (phone is out of range most of the time).
With a bleeding heart I think of you.