Anger management could help. so would counseling.

The "gotcha" with that is he really needs to be the one the initiate it and believe in it or it's just going to be him acting passive aggressively towards the counselor.

Those kinds of ingrained traits can be very hard to undo. Especially if it is "normal" for him from his childhood.

I know I communicated in passive aggressive ways in my marriage. That was because it was the only voice I was "allowed" (long involved story not relevant to this thread)

Once I was free of her control and got my voice back, it stopped. I'm wondering what kind of internal voice your H has going on that keeps him thinking he can't just come right out and say what is bothering him. Negative self talk? Low self esteem?

I think I might start with couples counseling and just get him to see it, and see that it is ruining your relationship... and hopefully that there is a chance to be move out of it and BE happy. Then see if you can get him in anger management and counseling of his own once he sees the worth.

I wish you the best of luck.

That's a great response Dave. I can totally relate to the post guayaba. It is really hard to pin down. Something that might be validating, I've done a lot of reading, and when faced with the complexity of behaviour like that, the important thing to remember, is if it feels wrong to you, that's all you need to know. No need to understand or explain why to yourself - it only prolongs the agony. Know that you deserve to feel good in your relationships, your body or "gut" will tell you when something's off.

As far as responding to him, it is very tricky. Responding in kind will not help generally, as he will likely just escalate it, and he can't bear to "lose" this kind of interaction. The only thing I have had some success with is to withdraw a little (or a lot depending on the circumstances) - if he is at all sensitive, he will notice something's not right and inquire about it.

If he is not physically violent, there are several books that can be helpful: "Respect-Me-Rules" any of the verbally abusive relationship books by Patricia Evans, and, including physical violenece, "Why does he do that" by Bancroft. It can be reassuring just to know your experience is not unique.

One of the best pieces of advice I ever got was to take good care of myself. It is very hard on a person's spirit to be in relationship with someone of this nature. Treat yourself very well, so that you will have the strength to deal with the situation. People don't always understand how hard it is to leave a long-term marriage - and will say "why don't you leave" - but there can be a long time of self-discovery, knowing you have done everything you can.

Getting to the core problem is crucial, otherwise what happens is he shifts to another mode of mistreatment even if you manage to get him to modify the initial one. It is up to him to make the change, don't feel you will be able to do it, but you can modify your own response to it which will create a shift in the relationship. If he is up to it he will need to make the change himself, and if you are lucky, you can be a catalyst in helping that change begin.

This may be dumb.... I know you can't pin point exactly what he is doing wrong, but maybe you could try saying "this action, reaction, or lack of action, make me feel .....this"? Take the good, bad, right, and wrong out of the equation all togther, and try to get him to realize that he is hurting you?

Dave- you make a good point- why doesn't he feel he can be more direct with me? I think it has to do with long standing patterns and the notion that who ever can play these games the best "wins". We are doing couples counseling, which I believe if you were to ask him why- is to fix me. I'm there to fix whomever or whatever needs fixing- even if that means figuring out how to be more approachable when he does have something to say that I may not want to hear. This reading between the lines stuff stinks and is frustrating.

Kate- we seem to own the same book collection :). Both of those are great, and I think I have to dig them out. You are right- people often don't get how wearing this is over time. It has taken a toll on my self esteem to some degree, but I am taking steps to turn that around. I think it is true also that people use information based on how you treat yourself to decide how they will proceed. If you seem not to care, they feel more free to follow suit.

Scarletjaded- that is one thing I am probably not very good at and it also ties in with the idea that I am perhaps not too approachable in direct ways: being able to state how these things make me feel without getting angry and going on the verbal warpath. It sounds like you are suggesting the "I statements" over "you statements", which could certainly help.

One problem I have which probably feeds into this, is after having grown up with a brother who is the human equivalent to water torture, I have learned it's not really safe to let people know how I feel. As a kid, doing that was always tantamount to telling your enemy how to really get you. Pretending not to be bothered was my only defense against that. So one thing that happens today is I'm sure I do go a length of time before I let on that I am annoyed, angry or whatever. I "save up", so sometimes it comes out with greater intensity probably than it might otherwise have.

I guess I do the passive part, at least for a while. The passive aggressive not so much because it just doesn't seem to lead anywhere good.

Thank you all for giving me some more to consider with this.

I turn it into AGGRESSIVE aggression. A nice set of boxing gloves and some headgear, some sparring, might do you both some good. Get that anger to the surface, and work it out!

therapy
therapy
therapy

me, i found leaving him was the only option

Good idea Kool!!

I should go dust off my sparring gear!

best come back to Passive Aggression....is Assertiveness!!! Only way

Every time he does it point it out, and let him know how it makes you feel. If he cant get that doing this is ruining the relationship, the make the tough decision of leaving that person.