I think you made a good statment in that "if it was there once, it could be there again" Yes and no, because as we all know the only thing that is constant is change, after 5 kids and years together things have changed, but hopefully what was once there has changed also. What can be done to meet your emotional needs, that love language do you need to hear, is it time with you, affirmations, etc. He maybe speaking in the feeling that he is working and providing for the family being his way to express his feelings. I am not sure what you have done to fix the relationship but as always talking is a great start in sharing what you feeling and what your needs are, he me feel the distance between the two of and not know why either.

Did you talk to your husband about getting couples counseling if the two of you can't get things back on track? Did you ask him if he wants to fix the relationship. It's possible things can get back, it's possible that they can't, being married and having a family, I feel it's worth the effort but both partners need to want it and put forth the effort. One partner can't do it alone.

If you don't see the relationship lasting and being a happy relationship, start getting yourself grounded now, get some education, get a job, start planning for the future so you don't have to be totally dependent on your husband financially.

As for what kind of guy would want someone with 5 kids, I wouldn't even think about a future man in your life at this point. Focus on seeing if you and your husband can save your marriage, on getting yourself in a position where you can stand on your own two feet, on taking the steps you have to take to be happy with yourself and your life.

If or when the times comes that the two of you do split up, give yourself time to adjust, be happy and content in your new lifestyle and then think about dating and possibly finding a new partner.

Love in a relationship can be rebuilt if both want to do the work. As the old saying says. It takes two. Have you asked him what he feels/wants? I have four grown kids and three live with us. There is no privacy. When I want to talk to my husband about us, I take him to dinner. We have a nice quite conversation over a nice dinner. Plus it gets us out and away. Something that all relaltionships need. Time alone together. If you have little ones, get a babysitter or ask one of the older kids if they can babysit, if they are of age. Take a couple of hours just for the two of you.
Once you are settled in and enjoying dinner, ask your husband what he would like to change in your relationship? Tell him that you want to reconnect with him so you would like to have more dinners out, just you and him. Once you start talking about changes and how to make those changes possible the communication gate is open and things will start to change. Remember, marriage is work. You have to do the work if you want a succesful marriage. Both of you have to committe to do the work.
If your husband comes up with changes that he wants to make, that is when you will know he is willing to work on your relationship. The trick is, keep the lines open. Once they are open, keep them open. Talk every day about your relationship, even if its only a 15 min conversation its something. You are at least touching base with each other. When you agree on changes in your relationship, do them. You will start to noticed that the old feelings will return and new ones will grow.
If you can afford it, think about therapy. It might help for the both of you to talk to a marriage counsler. I say, try every thing.

Good Luck.

My husbands approach is to ignore problems. I've brought it up, he knows all of my concerns. He thinks that putting too much focus on it is not good. So, he thinks things will just work themselves out I guess. He works long hours at a stressful job, so there is rarely time to talk and when there is he is tired and irritated from work and can't get to a place, mentally, to deal with it. When we talk, we argue. He has no interest in counseling because he says it would make things worse to put our focus on our problems.

I agree that focusing on positives is great, but we don't even do that. He says that because it makes me stop being negative for a while. Then, every few weeks, I wonder why nothing ever changes and we start all over again. He pushes me away when I try to kiss him and we rarely make love anymore. When we do it is all mechanical, he doesn't kiss me or hardly touch me during that either. When talk to him about it, he gets defensive and angry and tells ms I only see what is going wrong. So, I stop arguing and we don't talk for a few days. Then, one of us will start being polite and we go back to being civil until I lose it again. I do feel like it is me, because he never jumps up and says anything is wrong between us. I think I fulfill my role in his life. I take care of the house and the kids and dinner is ready when he gets home. That never changes. But, the problems haven't changed either. It's been like this for years. In the past, he tried. He would go for weeks or months doing the things he knew I was looking for. Things were good. Then, he would stop for whatever reason. I want to think he can do it again, but I just don't think he cares.

Suppose I'm a great one for logic lol.

Wow, never been married, but my relationship with someone did kinda run its course. We were never really that passionate to begin with (well, maybe I was, but she wasn't), and I settled for "something is better than nothing", until I realized that, sometimes "nothing is indeed better than a something that is devoid of any emotional connection whatsoever".

Yeah, it takes two to work on this. If he's not down, it won't change. I don't see why another situation has to be "harmful", to you and your children, in order to be "emotionally satisfying" to you, unless you like a certain emotional drama and volatility in your life in order for life to be satisfying and exciting (!). Sometimes anger is indeed a driving force to keep passion alive, but, obviously, you're looking for a bit of warmth and tenderness.

Wish I could think of something more positive to say, except try to get him to go to couples therapy. Maybe under his anger, there's pain, and under the pain, there's pleasure, love and joy that is still dormant and waiting to be explored-!

Here's a suggestion, how about you being the one to go to counselling? You go, just you, because you are the one writing about these problems--you're the one seeing the problems. Your husband doesn't one exists.
So go to counselling. Tell the counselor "Hey, I have 5 kids, no job, no education, no place to go, plus an indifferent husband. How can I work on my life to make it better?"

Before tossing this relationship off as a 'lost cause', instead of waiting for him to 'fix it', there may be some things you can do.

Since you don't work, I would imagine most of you day, time, energy and emotions center around caring for your husband, your children and your home; see if you can make time to volunteer ( at the hospital, a nursing home, a daycare, the YMCA, your church, etc.).

Your world is wrapped around them (husband and kids) but their world is NOT wrapped around you, because you do and are so much for them, you look to them for validation ('I'm a good Mom', I'm a good wife, I'm a good person, etc).

The problem is, kids are not good at validation...the best validation I got from my daughter, was AFTER she turned 24 when she said, "watching you growing up, I thought being a Mom was EASY, it isn't ". And it's likely your husband's idea of validating is "I'm providing".

IF you can find time to volunteer, I believe it could offer several benefits for you;
1. it gets you out of the house and time to yourself,
2. it will help you with self-esteem, you can learn a new skill or skills which may allow you to get part time work,
3. gives your kids/husband time to see how much you take care of and how much they take you for granted.
4. it gives you a chance to socialize
5.. and so much more

I worked outside the home for years, but in 2002 became disabled and a stay at home Mom, I found myself feeling unappreciated, unfulfilled, depressed, and more focused on my family; because of the extra focus on the relationship(s), I found 'problems' that needed fixing.

Basically, my suggestion is to work on you and not the relationship. Once you feel validated and understand your self worth, it will be easier for your husband to see it too.

And I will say this, I've been a waitress, a factory worker, a bartender, a house cleaner and a nurse but the hardest job I've ever had was being a stay at home Mom/wife.

When my son was 2 I realized my marriage sucked. I went to college and got on my feet. We broke up when my son was 10 and because I chose to be a nurse I make excellent money and if my ex was not paying child support I could still easily afford a pretty good life style.
You will have another rerlationship some day, but don't let this tought be the driving force behind your confidence in leaving this relationship, otherwise you will be with the same exact type of man you are with now.
Your driving force ideally should be a happy stable home, career security, indeoendence.
You are more likely to find a relationship if you firmly stand on your feet and have goals.
You have 5 kids so you will get plenty of financial aid. Even if you have to borrow money it is worth it. Go become a nurse. It is a rewarding profession with multiple specialties, all kinds of work schedules to accommodate your life and a 2 year degree in nursing gives you great wages. Nurses start as new grads anywhere from 35-55 k per year.
Going to college willmbe good for your self esteem as well. While going to school you will have time tomfigure out whether your marriage is worth staying in, because once you graduate, you will not feel so helpless and dependend - this is what it did for me.

Good luck!

Ah and not to mention tough! My friend is enrolled in a nursing program--lots to learn and long hours of studying. But you're right, if you can manage to stick it out, there's a lot to be gained from it emotionally and financially. My hat's off to you and all the other nurses out there!

the logical, non-emotional advice would be to stay where you are and work toward getting an education and a job that you can usefully apply if you decide to leave later on.

LunaRose,
In all my years of belonging to internet groups... that was the best advice I have ever read.

My only concern with volunteering is that I just don't know when I would make time for it. I completely agree and have thought about it many times, though! I'd love to get out and do something good!

As far as counseling, I have made myself appointments, but my husband isn't interested and basically says he is afraid it will make things worse. He is very against "focusing on the problem" as you can see. He is always in this position of waiting for things to get better. Like it will just magically happen. I am beyond that, I'm done waiting. Something actively needs to happen here.

So, yes, I have attempted counseling, but canceled appointments because I am not going to go behind my husbands back to get counseling. The thought of it just sounds crazy.

I went to school for medical assisting, and I did enjoy myself. I'd really like to go to school for a nutrition degree, but I can't find anything locally. I have looked for online classes, but can't find a suitable program with financial aid. Ultimately, I'd really love to go into nutrition.

Nursing may be a good step. I just really feel limited on time with 5 kids and I'd hate to start something I couldn't finish. I have been thinking about school a lot lately, so maybe I will just have to find a program I can live with and go for it.

There is a such thing as going to therapy for yourself. That would not being going behind your husbands back. The therapy would be for you.
I think your husband doesn't want to go to therapy because he knows he will be called out on how he has been treating you. The truth will come out and he cant face that. What I am about to say is harsh but it is the truth, "Your husband is a coward". He cant and wont face the truth. He rather let things work themselves out. How? How in the hell are things going to work out. Work has to be done, everyone has to face the facts and the truth. He doesn't want to do that. He wants things to stay the way they are. He keeps doing what he wants, and you stay in pain and allows him to be cruel to you.
You need to rise up and think about yourself and your children. What kind of example are you showing your children. Believe it or not, children see every thing that is going on. They may not understand every thing but they do feel the tension. If you have girls, they will learn from you how they should be treated by a man. If you have boys, they will learn from you and your husband how to treat women. You have to think about what you are teaching them. Its not only about you and your husband its about the whole family.
This is why I think therapy will be good for you. A good therapist will help with your own personal self esteem. Also a good therapist will give you tools to maybe help with your relationship with your husband. You have to give it a chance. You have to do something for your self. Start off slow and work your way forward. All it takes is one tiny step. Make that step.

I am praying for you.

Mommy, I really wish you the best and I hope everything works out in your relationship, because I feel like you are not really ready to do anything to change your situation on your own.
I am not saying this to be mean, I just see what I see.

I know a few women who have 4 plus kids and they have gone to school and worked FT while being mothers. I was pregnant with my second child at school. I also worked at the hospital and had a home business while in school. It was not easy, but I had determination and finished with honors.
once the kids went to school, I had even more time to expand my career and I am SO glad I did because when my husband cheated money was one of many things that did not hold me back from getting out of this tragic relationship.


I have a friend (a foreigner like me) who was in a position of being a stay home mom, they lived way up and the mountains and she didn't even know how to drive. We talked many times about how isolated she feels at times and how sometimes they don't have enough money, etc..
8 years ago I was going to school and in one of these conversations I asked her: " what are you going to do if something happens to your husband? you have kids and no real job skills to support your family on your own?"
She gave me a million reasons why she can't learn to drive, why she can't go to school and get a job.
3 years ago her husband became permanently disabled, they almost went bankrupt and almost lost their house, so in the end she did learn how to drive, became a nurse's aid and now works full time, even though the variables of her family life have not changed, she did what had to be done.

Staying home with children is an important job, but imo every woman should be able to hold her own if something happens with their spouse.
Investing into education if one is not well off requires strategical planning and market research.
I became a nurse for reasons other than money, but this degree cost me 20K and it makes sense to pay this kind of money because there is a big employment need AND they pay well.
My sister paid 10K for a billing and coding degree and can't find a job because she has no experience, while in nursing they will hire new grads no problem.

Anyway, I wish you the best. Sometimes it takes something very strong to shake us out of our comfort zone, step out and do what has to be done.

I just want to thank you all for this thread. I'm so glad I read it. It reinforces my feelings too.

Whether you pursue the education in Nutrition, or whatever you desire or not, the time is still going to pass. One class at a time will add up. Do what's best for you in the long run, for your, and your children's, future.

When I became a SAHM, I started an online costume business because I had computer skills and I know how to sew. It doesn't make much money but it keeps me 'current' as far as my resume and skills are concerned.

A little over five years ago I quit drinking to mask my unhappiness with my situation. A year later I started attending our local junior college. I've been going for about four years, paying out of pocket and acquiring little debt. Most of my classes are online and compliment what I did professionally, before I had my family.

I also started volunteering, one or two days a month, with a local program that provides weekend meal packages for needy school children in our community.

I only have two children so I can only imagine what having five is like.