I was first gonna say, It's a curse, but after reading the rest of your post there are a lot of positive things about it, I grew up in California and had it much better I suppose than others. And I have never really been "in the closet". I was told at work the other day that maybe I need to be uuummm quieter about it since I work for the Catholic Archdioceses, was ment to help but just made me feel like shit.........

Wow, you're out and you work for Catholic Archidioceses? That's a first. I figured most people associated with the Catholic Church were probably in the closet. Except for that Father Geoffrey Farrow up in Fresno who came out before the Prop. 8 election to oppose it. I was raised Catholic, so I know how hard it can be. Still, American Catholicism seems a bit more liberal than the official dogma handed down from Rome, so I guess you should feel comforted that at least they have a place for you, even if you can't truly be yourself. But I think this is true in most places--I work for a junior college, and everyone knows about my sexuality, but it's not something that is to be discussed at all. Going into the personal is considered very inappropriate.

Well I work at a medical center operated by the brothers of st. john of god, it's weird tho because a huge percentage of us are gay, and i am not really able to cover it up, i guess i am totally obvious, but why shouldn't i be able to talk about my partner like everyone else does, i am not going to change a thing, really, am so busy with up to 28+ patients don't have much talking time anyway.........................

A gift from God? I suppose. We are each unique and not some cheap copy. We all have differences and experiences that others can learn from. From what I believe God doesnt have favorites or love others more or less but rather all the same. So a mental "gift" or tangible "gift"? Granted some people are smarter than others but that is debatable as well. Smarter in what? Book or street? It is said that dumb people can receive a college degree as you just need memorize.

But in all seriousness is being gay a gift? I think we are unique but not any more special than anyone else. I am "me" just like you are "you". The general public is more accepting but not everywhere. If it was a gift we would be treated better than defective.

Catch 22 really. Some days it is a blast, some days it sucks. I try to exploit my strengths and make the most of what I have.

It's an interesting philosophical approach but strikes me as saying being born black during slavery would be a gift, or being a woman prior to the right to vote was a gift.

I get the notion of turning a negative into a positive, but this doesn't accomplish it as far as I'm concerned. Those who persecute us, use whatever is at their disposal (religion or otherwise) to justify their anger.

Persecuted groups often learn to "play the victim" and I refuse to be a victim to their anger and hatred. Nor does being part of a persecuted group engender sensitivity to others -- it can also breed contempt.

I disagree. I think being different can lend itself to heightened sensitivity to others' difficulties. But you must keep your heart open to this possibility--I've seen many gay folk retreat into bitterness over perceived injustices and despair over the transience and superficiality of the gay life. I think trying to find something of value in the setbacks life has dealt you is psychologically healthier than dwelling on the negative. I've been down that road and it leads nowhere except nihilism and despair--a rather ugly, soul extinguishing alternative. But it's in one's own hands how one chooses to approach this.

I should qualify my comments. I've worked in the social services field for a decade now and could regale you with all sorts of tales of the gay youth that I have met in recent years. None of who are going to see their sexuality or their treatment as a gift.

There isn't "a" gay community where I live, there are a multitude of gay communities where people with common interests congregate. The only time that I hear or see issues around youth and beauty is here on DS or when I pick up one of the local gay publications.

I seem to have a different experience of the "party scene" as well. My time over the years have been spent out as a single man, as someone who was dating and with a partner during significant relationships and with friends.

My feeling is judging the entire community as "superficial" only closes off the opportunity to meet those of us who aren't. Which only makes us our own worst enemies.

I don't think the problem is gay men, but the specific people we choose to include in our life. The same people that I can go out for a night of dancing with are the same people who will go to the museum with me on a Sunday, plan horseback riding and hot air ballooning trips, sit at a cafe for a brunch or talk about something of substance.

In fact, I would even argue that some of the men in the clubs are there because of what's happened to them in the past with respect to prior relationships and what their "gift" has brought them.

Just to give time to the other side, I think there is also a segment of the gay population that really isn't interested in a hetero-style long term relationship. But that's a compatibility issue. And according to a few friends there is also sexual compatibility. One night -- even after several dates is enough for some men to know that they aren't going to be happy with that person.

At any rate, I think the theme of self-acceptance has been surfacing a fair bit lately, so thank you for posting your comments. I appreciated them just the same.

Fair enough. Some points well taken--especially the superficial one. I think you're right--it's easier to write off the gay community than to try to stay open to the possibilities. But it is hard to stay open when all you're feeling is rejection and maybe you start to believe there's something to it. Life is too hard sometimes. So much darkness before the clouds part and we get a momentary glimpse of sunlight. : )

I feel somewhat strongly about the connection between being gay and being creative. Obviously we are talking about generalization here, but it does seem like a larger proportion of gay men (compared to straight men) are sensitive to beauty, design, performing arts, and know how to express such sensitivity in their creative works. I used to think it's because gay men spent a lot more time to fantasize in their dream world because the reality wouldn't allow gay men to be who they really were, but over time I tend to think that there might be some other connections.

Part of the gay culture may be all about sex, but I do think that the straight population has a comparable percentage of people who are engaged in equally promiscuous activities. I also think that the next generation of gay men would possibly be more monogamous because the society is changing and allowing more gay couples to have an easier time to come out. When I was growing up, there was absolutely no role model to look up to, and I had never seen any gay couples who had been together for a long time. So I just thought it would simply be impossible for a gay man to have any steady relationship. Now I think the younger generations will have a different concept about witnessing gay couples staying together and growing old together. I think that might help to shift the bar scene over time.

Rejection likely hurts a fair bit, but there are a few things to keep in mind.

You are not going to be interested in every man who might express and interest in you.

Dating someone to avoid their feelings being hurt isn't going to help you or that man to be happy.

We all have our preferences and choices as to physical looks and personality traits that we find attractive.

I don't see it as a rejection of me, but a choice to be with someone who is different from me.

HRF has a point that there aren't many "role models" for young gay men to see men in a long term relationship. I think it overlooks the point though that the last few "queer" generations are also bucking what is traditional. Not everyone is suited to a long term relationships and it is equally unfair for us to pressure other to live their lives the way that we think they should. That is what the heterosexual community does to us.

I don't think I was putting pressure on any one--just expressing my view based on my impressions and frustrations on what I see as an overall tendency in the gay world toward self-destructive behavior. But, of course, people can live their lives any way they damn well choose. Having said that, I do think we live in a time of moral relativism in which we're not supposed to criticize anyone's moral choices, which I have a hard time reconciling with. I think it leads to nihilism, but, as I said above, to each his own.

Under the paradigm that you described, anyone wanting to criticize you for being gay or having a relationship with a man is well within their rights. For them not to do so would be moral relativism.

Fortunately, we have the freedom where I can choose otherwise.

I find it difficult to connect with these views - firstly I am aetheist, secondly I dont think there is such a thing as a gay community.

Having said that I have often struggled with meeting other gay men who are 'me' either as friends or lovers.

Yet I look around at a lot of straight relationships and think to myself 'I couldnt do that'.

so for me God doesnt come into it.

My renewed idea about a gay community is that it exists when one is determined to find it. Gay people do hang out together for various types of activities--healthy or not, good or bad--all relative to each of us. We can seek out these groups, or we can be individuals living our life without having a need to be strongly associated with any groups or communities.

As to the reference to any kind of religion, to me it's really a different topic. When i read the original post from juanitoc, I thought about the "gifted" part, but it did not cross my mind it's a gift from any kind of creator or higher power. I think gay men share some specific traits and characteristics, and these traits lead to a particular mentality and culture. Still, being gay is not the only thing we are about as there are always other factors in our lives that influence us. If a person can turn hardships into learning lessons, then with some luck the person may have a better chance to move onto better life by making good decisions and good use of past experience; if a person gets stuck with hardships and no one else can help him, then he will continue with his miserable life. To me, gifted or not, it's only one factor that impacts life, among many other things.