I'll check it out.

I did watch it myself. Very informative. I would love to hear what Dave in the Philippines has to say about it. This seems to be more up his ally as it is mostly to technical for myself. It is geared for defense lawyers but still some good information for us average persons to know. I was charged with CP at the state level and this helped me to better understand what my lawyer did for me behind the scenes with negocation.

That was interesting. One of the things that jumped out at me, and I had this feeling before when the government decided to charge my son 1 count with Vicky.. was that these young women are making a lot of money on these videos and images. My son didn't have to pay restitution because he was 20 and had no money.
Vicky is making money for her and her lawyer, as well as Amy and a few other mainline victims. This makes another part of the puzzle FOR these laws because now we have civil restitution and not just jail time and registry.
Which I've thought of in the past, but it just brings it back to my mind again.

I have stated several times that Vicky and Amy have a gravy train here, but their lawyers are also making a lot of money also. Every time Vicky and Amy receive a notification from the government that a defendant has been arrested with some of their images, the civil attorneys see dollar signs.

It is hard for me to imagine how looking at a picture----just pointing your eyes in the direction of an image---- is the proximate cause of Amy and Vicky's emotional suffering. You REALLY have to stretch the avenues of common sense to believe some of the myths about child porn that many victim's advocates claim. REALLY STRETCH. In fact, a person would have to be stupid to believe some of these myths.

Believing that a person who just possesses these images is more complicit than the person on the images molesting these girls is just crazy. The perpetrators are the ones that are the proximate cause of the suffering.

Actually, the government has to be considered a little complicit in this, as they notify Vicky and Amy every time a person's hard drive is found to have one of Amy's or Vicky's pictures or videos. If it is as damn horrifying and emotionally heart wrenching as the government claims, why even notify the girls? That is just like rubbing an open wound so it will never heal. That would solve the problem.

As I have often said, now that the War on Drugs is winding down and has been considered a failure, this nation needs a new War on something and it looks like it will be the War on Child Pornography.
We will then proceed to spend billions of hard earned tax dollars to fight this new "war."

But that is a topic for another time.

rewdiazepam

Since Vicky and the other girls are making a pretty large profit, it's more like prostitution and, at this point, they're equally guilty. There comes a point where jail time for the accused, and an initial restitution should be enough but to make mucho bucks should be a crime as well. These ladies, because they're not little girls anymore, need to get on with their lives , unless they have none and this is their paycheck.

Again, our politicians are in the loop.

yes, War on CP. Just say no.

Well said, Nako.

rewdiazepam

One thing I would like to point out is that the images and videos of the girls are intellectual property. I want to point out that every time these videos and pictures are sold or money exchanges hands for them the subjects are supposed to receive something for royalties. I am sure their lawyers are making out on that. It also gives them fuel to take legal action for people who distribute such items without funds exchange. they can sue for royalties. I also think it give the lawyers a edge to say the victims are being hurt by not getting there share of the funds. I do think that it is a type of exploitation or like Nak said prostitution.

I feel that the girls or victims should just get whatever the courts decide to give them. I feel they should loose any ownership or rights to the images, video, etc. I agree that these girls or victims should not be profiting from them being exploited or worse. That gives the wrong idea to others.

nhawkes,

Mind you, the Vicky and Amy images were taken at home by her father and not in a studio. So, if I take a picture in my living room of my grandson watching TV or something like that, it is intellectual property? And if I should sell that home image taken with a digital camera, my grandson is supposed to receive royalties? I did not know that. I thought the only pictures or videos that received royalties were those produced commercially, not in someone's front living room. Interesting.

But, nhawkes, you make a good point and I never looked at it that way.

The problem with most child porn images and videos is that they are not sold---they are copied off either a web site or off someone's hard drive----and no money changes hands. To my knowledge, child porn traders do not exchange money for these homemade images. If they get them off a P2P network, they are free.

rewdiazepam

Rew,

To answer you questions on CP. I personally was charged with possession. I was using LimeWire a P2P network. I did not receive any jail time just probation. No money was exchanged. The judge even said that no one benefited from my actions but myself. If you watch the webinar posted it clearly states that the material is very easy to access as was my case sadly.

Perhaps I was not clear by what I meant by intellectual property, the photos are the property of the person taking them. As far as selling them or distributing them goes the subject must approve it.


Q: Is a photo of me taken without my expressed permission my intellectual property? Like on facebook and stuff. Could I get that photo of me taken down?

A1: In the United States, the person taking the picture has the rights to it. However, if you're in a place where privacy is expected, then the photo must be taken down. Basically, the photographer would own the photo, but there are exceptions due to privacy laws.

A2: No a picture of you is not your Intellectual Property, it is the IP of the Photographer. To be used in Commercial way the Photographer needs your permission unless your identity is obscured (except under certain conditions). And if you are in a location in which privacy is expected your permission is required. In public places, you can take pictures of almost anyone, without consent.

I did a search for intellectual property of a photograph. I came across these answers.

To make my point more clear, The subject needs to authorize the sale of the images. Technically these girls were un contracted models/actors. I was saying that lawyers representing the girls would try to go after the payday saying that they were unpaid for their services. What you refer to in you example is correct that most people who receive royalties have a written contract that explains that they get some funds for the permission to use and distribute the book, picture, movie, etch.

I do truly feel that these children are victims of some of the most horrific crimes out there. I am not trying to say that they were willing as I am sure some of them may have been but must are not or, do not understand. still the lawyers could try to make a payday for their client. My concern is that if the child benefits from this it may end up encouraging others not to come forward if they also benefit from them being hurt and exploited.

what Nak is trying to say in my opinion is that these ladies will try to keep going to the courts and crying every time they find out someone has their picture looking for a payout.

I don't know what they're trying to do. It just seems that, if something like this happens and you keep it as your every day existence. . ie, suing people, then you're doing it more for profit, maybe attention, but it doesn't seem a healthy way to live.
The judge could have made my son pay $150,000. He accidentally downloaded 3 cp along with over 2300 music videos on Limewire. . 1 he never saw, 2 he opened and seeing what they were, deleted them right away. Our forensics proves that.
He's paid for these girls injustices. He went to federal prison for 30 months, now serving 15 years probation.

Maybe if Vicky stopped going to court, then there would be less push. I don't know but it seems the more people want 'retribution' the more push to put the bad guy away. It certainly doesn't help.

And Vicky could be making a good living off of it. Maybe it doesn't bother her anymore .... as she's been doing this for a very long time.. and the money is good. prostitution comes to my mind.

@nhawkes,

Thanks for explaining that to me. You cleared it up for me.

@Nak,

Yes, the system is sure in a mess and you are correct to be thoroughly disgusted over your son's case.

rewdiazepam

I used LimeWire myself and did not pay a cent for anything I received through their service. I can fully agree with what you are saying Nak. I have said before that LimeWire can and does transmit things from your computer without your knowledge or consent. I can tell you that I personally tried to download programs and zipped files that were something else like MS office templates or Game files that had CP in them. I did not know till I opened up the file and looked what was inside. I also had to pay a small amount of restution (fine). I do not know where the funds went.

I think people like Vicky go to court so much because they see instant results and can get something for their pain and suffering. Once you give a man a fish he eats for a day. You teach him to fish he eats for life. I feel once she saw that she could get funds for her suffering she exploited playing the victim card. I bet she did all the talk shows plus wrote a book. To me being an activist letting people know about something that is very bad going on is one thing. Benefiting from your own suffering and pain is something else to me. I bet she feels the world owes her because she was raped, molested, Etc. on picture and film.

To me Vicky is a prostitute. The definition is any sex act where money is exchange is prostitution. When she was being harmed she did not receive money but, Like you said, she received restution. that to me makes her a prostitute even if the money is later and not paid when services are rendered.

The government attempts to give long prison sentences to anyone even in possession of child porn. They really hit a defendant pretty hard for just looking at a picture.

Now it is not enough to punish the downloaders in criminal court. With the Vicky and Amy cases, they have a new avenue to punish these defendants----civil court. I am not sure where they think most of these defendants will ever get the money to pay any judgment. If they had any money in the first place, they spent most of it on attorneys during their criminal proceeding. And since it is almost impossible to be gainfully employed because of the registration scheme, they probably will not have much money ever.

But the fact that criminal punishment was not enough and they had to tack on civil punishment just shows how ruthless these people are. Talk about extracting the last pound of flesh!!!!

I am not against law and order and punishing someone for a crime they might commit, but let us make the punishment fit the crime and not go overboard here. And that is not taking into consideration that there are cases in which the child porn is accidentally downloaded.

This country is just in a mess.

rewdiazepam

I agree that this country is very much lost. I am almost ashamed to say I live here.

I wanted to point out that there is a difference between civil and criminal court. I wish to say that people go both ways because of the clause that in criminal it has to be proven "beyond reasonable doubt". Civil is if "reasonable doubt" exists at all. Most people feel if they can not get criminal charges they can get civil ones.

I do agree that the fees are crazy and do not fit the crimes. How can the courts expect a average middle class person or a unemployed individual to pay such high fines? I think they know that and see it as a deterrent to others. They also know that if you do not pay the fine you get jail instead and us taxpayers pay for your butt in prison.

I want to say the long jail and high fines for CP does not work. Look at the charts in the video. for years now, CP has and is growing. Sadly or justice system just thinks punishment is enough to deter others from doing the crime. The way I personally see it the focus needs to be on prevention not just preventing people from haring children but, preventing access to this material. I have personally not heard anything about prevention in months. I do hear about others that are punished (charged) though.

I didn't know it but ...

http://www.hatch.senate.gov/public/_cache/files/457b1bfb-0c61-4325-ba97-119d07182904/Amy%20and%20Vicky%20Act%20one-pager.pdf

The Amy and Vicky Child Pornography Victim Restitution Improvement Act

my reading material for tonight