sickening. a ready made force of those that are practically slaves.

Has anyone seen that Boston is using inmates to try and get their crippled Mass Transit system back open?

I wouldn't be surprised as anytime the need for cheap labor arises the first place they look is prisons... (ie. the south uses chain gangs exclusively... many times getting sheriff's in trouble...)

As we have discussed numerous times Rew, I completely agree with you on mass incarceration and how much of a racket it is. Where I don't get the picture is how it is applied towards sex offenders. The monitoring, and registry fees and polys are not even in the same atmosphere as the other industries leeching off the government for more inmates and blood sucking the families of prisoners for every dollar they will give for their loved one in prison. I see a fundamental difference between the two.

Yes, Independent, we have had a similar discussion several times previously.
I think we are pretty much on the same page, but our ideas might not be exactly alike.

I fully agree that someone in power did not just come up with the idea of the registry to generate income. They did not say one day, "Oh, I think a registry would be a good idea as we would profit greatly from it."

In general this mess is fueled by the media, and then the politicians jump in, see a situation they can take advantage of to keep getting re-elected year after year to appease the frightened populace, and the result is more laws.

No, the registry was not created to make certain groups of people money. That was never its intent.

But there are certain prosecutions that are the result of law enforcement concentrating on those crimes because the conviction will result in them receiving millions of dollars in federal grants. Rather than be reactive, they become proactive and can control the investigation to a bigger degree than most crimes.

The solicitation of a minor over the internet is a prime example. Many of these law departments---and certainly in south Florida with Mr. Judd----push the hell out of these investigations so they will continue to receive large amounts of money from the government in the form of federal grants. The more arrests, the more grant money, in many cases. You can bet if the grant money dried up, the police would no longer be interested in any "cyber crime" issues and the arrests would stop.

To a lesser extent, I think many of the CP investigations are the product of a local law enforcement agency that wants to capitalize on the "ick" factor of the crime and as a result they go overboard with these investigations. They, too, are fueled in part, by the enticement of federal grants.

In both the solicitation and CP charges, law enforcement knows that they have to keep their arrest numbers up to continue to receive federal money in the form of grants.

So what do they do? They keep the arrest numbers up by making a lot of arrests for internet crimes. Any time there is a money incentive, you will see this.

Nobody can ever convince me that some of these internet stings are not the product of a bunch of law enforcement people that just "want to do the right thing" or "make our children safer." The scope and the number of stings show that these investigations are fueled by an incentive for money.

And many of the drug investigations were pushed a little harder than normal because they knew there was a forfeiture clause and they could make money on it. Not most drug investigations, but some.

This is not the case with armed robbery, burglary, forgery, assault, etc. There is no money to be made from prosecuting these types of vanilla crimes.

The tricky part is that many agencies, groups of people, people, and private prisons do indeed profit quite handsomely with an increase in crime.

But unlike the solicitation crimes and the CP investigations, the police have to way to control these regular crimes, so they cannot profit off them.

The internet crimes are crimes that the police can "make happen" and I think everyone here knows what I mean. The police can bait men and in the case of the CP investigations, the police have a tremendous amount of control over the investigation.

rewdiazepam

Yeah i see how the money is growing on trees in central floriduh for these police agencies.

At the same time I can't place the blame on the police as much as others might. As someone in sales, I know what my company wants me to sell they make it lucrative for me to focus on. So when I had my monthly sit down with the regional director he asked me why I think the company's sales dropped in one of our product categories. My response was, "because there is almost no way to make it profitable for the company while beating our competitors in price. And if it isn't profiablt for the company it means no commission for me. And we are both in the business of making money."

What is the root cause of the police looking pretending to be kids and lure people into talking to them about sex? Several hyped cases that politicians are looking to benefit off of and ensure their own reelection.

Independent,

This is where we disagree slightly and I have dealt with law enforcement---a LOT of law enforcement----over the years and I know how many of them operate.

I lived in a small town and many of the guys who were on the police force there I had known for years, went to high school with, and played on the same baseball teams. I know what kind of people some of these guys are.

I can assure you that most of the solicitation cases in South Florida would stop if the government quit sending these guys thousands of dollars.

I had a policeman on our local police force who told me outright that "we have to keep our arrest numbers up on these internet cases" or we are not eligible for our grants.

I place a LOT of the blame on the police.

Independent, you said, "As someone in sales, I know what my company wants me to sell they make it lucrative for me to focus on."

Sure, it is lucrative for the police so that is what they focus on----internet stings. But where we differ is that I categorize starting a criminal investigation and practically entrapping some lonely guy by hounding him until he relents and meets the "bait"---and ruining his life in the process---is a little different that something as impersonal as making sales for a company.

The cops outright lie in these investigations. They lie because they want convictions, which keeps the gravy train of money flowing to their coffers.

Many of these cops know damn well what they are doing and I don't think for a minute that some of them think that many of these guys they snare in the sting are dangerous. Yet, they want to lie to them, hound them, arrest them, and ruin their lives.

Just because someone CAN do something does not mean they SHOULD. Just because the cops CAN take a naive young man who is not really a threat, bait him, keep asking him to meet, and then arresting him does not mean they SHOULD. Doing things like the cops are doing here are the things that really bad people do.

They know they are taking advantage of a guy and the situation for THEIR gain. To ruin a guy's life just so they can receive a little more money via a federal grant is just deplorable in my opinion.

I would not for a moment say that all the guys in these solicitation schemes are harmless and I would not claim that most of them did not break the law, BUT BUT they had a helluva lot of help by the cops to break these laws.

This is an example of power running amok.

If I were a policeman, I would wonder about the morality of taking a naive person, lying to him, hounding him, and arresting him by trickery. It is not ruled entrapment in most cases, but many of these guys are prodded---and prodded hard---by the police. I just think that is terrible.

And if I were a cop, I would feel bad about taking a man like this and convicting him with my chicanery, KNOWING full well that he could very easily wind up in PRISON with his life ruined.

These guys might be horny and lonely but most are not candidates for years in a federal prison or a long term of sex offender probation.

Yes, I know the guys are in the wrong for agreeing to contact a "victim" once he learns she is 14 years old, but the punishment should fit the crime; and in these cases it does not.

Independent you said, " And if it isn't profiablt for the company it means no commission for me."

So if, at the time, things are slow at the police station, then cops should start manufacturing crime, as they practically do in these stings?

Just because policemen have a job to fight crime, does not make it moral to run these types of investigation just to have "something to do."

I do believe that there is plenty of crime out there on the streets to keep these police departments busy without having to resort to this tomfoolery.

But they don't want to do that. Why? Because it is not as profitable for them as these internet stings. A little extra money coming into the department is more important to the cops than morality.

Independent, you said, "What is the root cause of the police looking pretending to be kids and lure people into talking to them about sex? Several hyped cases that politicians are looking to benefit off of and ensure their own reelection."

You may place most of the blame on the politicians, but it is the policeman that are setting up these stings and profiting by them, NOT the politicians. Nobody is forcing the cops to run these internet stings. They do it because there is a motive for them to do so.

If you take away that motive---federal grants----I can damn well guarantee you that the stings on a large scale will stop. What does that tell you?

You are much more tolerant than I am regarding law enforcement and I think it is because of our life's experiences.

rewdiazepam

Rew... This is one of those things that cannot be quantified by any measurement so they do it in the name of prevention and free money. As the public does not know the facts they go along willingly. The police honestly think they are preventing crime where no crime exists.

That's what sucks about knee jerk laws. They keep politicians in office and lock up the public. In the end it's the almighty dollar that wins...

Free,

Sure that is the problem that there is no way to predict how many of these guys would have contacted a 14 year old young lady on their own, but I don't really like these proactive investigations.

Who is to say that, if they cops did not instigate these stings by placing ads on ADULT SITES---sites where minors are not allowed----that one of these offenders would have committed a solicitation of a minor crime?

If the police had never placed that ad in the adult section of Craigslist or whatever place they use now, would have these same individuals contacted a 14 year old female ON THEIR own anyway? Without a boost from the police?

I suggest that since these guys were not looking on a site where teens are known to go, but rather looked for ads where they had no idea minors would be there, then they were not looking to have sex with a minor child in the first place.

This proactive nonsense, when the police just use a wide net and troll for men on the internet, only creates a situation in which a lot of men will be convicted that would have never contacted a child in the first place.

Is that what we want, to arrest someone that may not have wanted to have sex with a child? To "trick" people into arrests? To send men to prison for being a fool? Are our prisons not already full enough that we have to resort to this nonsense?

I know, I know, the cops always tell the guy after a long time has passed that, "Oh, by the way, I am only 14 years old. Does that matter?"

After they have worked these guys up for weeks and weeks, many fall for it. You men know how guys are. We can be really stupid when it comes to sex.

Law enforcement plays on the human nature of men. Why do that at all? Why play these silly little games when there is real crime on the street? I think we all should know why they put such a high priority on these internet stings. If we don't, we are terribly naive when it come to law enforcement.

If these guys really were child predators and wanted to have sex with a child, can you tell me why they were looking for that companionship and sex on an ADULT site?

In my opinion, it is pretty damn sad when we have to "trick" people and play on their human nature to get them to prison. Really sad.

rewdiazepam

In the same week when my son was arrested for contacting a non-existent 14-year-old, my wife, who is a middle-school teacher, tried to get help for an abused and neglected 13-year-old in her class. She was told there were no funds available for teenagers.

I guess that means for REAL teenagers.

By the way, my wife has been teaching middle school for twenty-six years. In that time, my son has visited her school exactly once. That's how much interest he has in underage girls.

Yeah I agree Rew that the police don't have to do what they are doing. Especially in some of the areas like central Florida. And you are right my experience with police has been a lot better than yours. I think based on where I live the police are little bit better than the Bible Belt -- ok a lot better.

The police aren't being coerced to do what they are doing, but they are being directed by the almighty dollar. Like you said in most of the country a lot of this would dry up if we got rid of the grants. The police are a weapon of the government to keep people scared. They don't even have to tell the police what to do, they can direct them to do their biding with grants.

I seem to remember reading about special grant money for the Crimes Against Children units in CA... and rapidly increasing numbers of arrests.