Rewdiazepam, a very knowledgeable member here, can help with these legal questions. My incarcerated fiancé, an SO and 2nd time offender, actually passed his polygraph. They are not reliable for sure.

Yes REW helped me three years ago when my son went in. Looking forward to his reply.

Where is Rew?

I am here. I was not going to mention this, but since people are beginning to notice my absence, let me tell you what happened.

About three weeks ago I contracted double pneumonia. I was having difficulty breathing as one would expect with pneumonia in both lungs.

We started on some oral antibiotics and then switched to IV antibiotics. My doctor friend set the Home Health up so I could do my IV antibiotics at home plus I was on oxygen for a couple of days.

As the pneumonia was getting better, I developed septicemia; I became septic. Apparently some of the pathogenic bacteria from the pneumonia got into my blood stream. Septicemia is blood poisoning. Since the organs, such as the liver, kidneys, etc. are nourished by blood, we feared that the bacteria in my blood would affect some of my vital organs.

Blood poisoning is serious and potentially life threatening.

We got the septicemia under control with massive doses of IV antibiotics and a couple of days in the hospital. Then I had an acute prostatitis attack, as the bacteria did hit my prostate; then I had a UTI also----urinary tract infection.

I know you fine ladies have never had prostatitis, but most of you have had a urinary tract infection a couple of times. I could not go to the bathroom and pee, as the swollen prostate would not allow the urine to pass. Ladies also have a problem peeing with a UTI. And, folks, when you cannot pee, it is miserable.

More antibiotics.

For a couple of weeks there, I felt like the walking dead. I was able to sit at my computer and log in, but did not feel well enough to post. I still have some fatigue, but nothing like I did when I became septic. I still have a nagging lingering cough.

So I have been pretty sick, but I am doing better now. I WILL get to my messages and discussions within the next several days as long as I don’t have any more complications, which I don’t think I will. I plan to stay on the oral antibiotics for the next two months to flush all the bacteria out of my system.

Just hang tight. I am feeling much better today, so just be patient with me. I WILL answer all my messages, but I am behind a little.

I will never desert you mothers, GFs, wives, and families of sex offenders. I will be here to help you in any way as long as possible. Since I don't plan on dying for many years, I will be here for a long time.

I will be good as new in a few days.

rewdiazepam

REW- so glad you are pulling through. What a nightmare. Take care of yourself. You helped me many years ago when my son went in and I am so grateful. Be well!

anotherbrokenheart,

I vaguely remember you and your son. I have probably helped several hundred offenders and their families over the years, but I do remember your case.

I am just glad to help and I am happy that there is a place you can get answers. The joke in the support world is that "REW is a sucker for a mother in pain." I guess I am, but there are worse things I could be.

I will answer your's and all my messages next week sometime, probably toward the end of the week. I still am not feeling up to par.

All the mothers, wives, GFs, and families of offenders are more to me than just a number or statistic. You are family to me and I will continue to help in any way possible.

God Bless each and every one of you,

rewdiazepam

I was extremely lucky, I did a full history poly to try and get a better plea deal. I did the poly with someone who was also used by the state so they let me use that when I went on probation instead of taking a new one.

Polygraphs are very stressful even if you have nothing to hide. I took many while on probation. The key for me was getting lots of sleep the night before, eat a couple hours before the poly, and don’t have too much caffeine in my system. Dress nice for the poly, this is pseudo-science indeed so how you present yourself to the examiner matters. On this poly they may not try to trip you up at the end. But on maintenance polygraphs they will often try something like, “your answer for this question showed some deception why is that?” Take a breath, look them in the eyes and say, “I don’t know why you got that response.”

Unless you have an obscene amount of money and time I don’t think you will be able to argue the unscientific nature of polys in court. Even if the PO doesn’t violate him for failing they will eventually find some reason on him if they want to. That’s why the only way to win at parole/probation is to give into it. Be the straightest arrow you can be and pray that it works out.

After a couple years on probation I had a bad situation that wasn’t a problem because they knew I wasn’t a problem. I was going to college and I was running late on a friday, campus parking was full so I had to park on the street. Just so happened it was right in front of the campus daycare. I thought about while parking that it would look bad but I wanted to get to class. I get a call Monday morning from my PO asking why I was parked in front of a daycare on Friday (looks like a cop was looking for cars with expired tags or just bored, but then running my plate sent up a red flag). I explained the situation and even said talk to my professors, I was in class. It wasn’t a problem for me, but I know for some people that hadn’t been trying to be straight as an arrow it would’ve been.

As for therapy and admitting guilt I might ask your attorney about this, but if I were in your son’s situation I personally would just say I was very intoxicated as well. I would admit everything but at no point during the sexual activity was she blacked out. And if they ask if you thought she was too drunk to give consent I’d say I was drunk too.

Independent 2014 thank you for your reply. I will pass along. Glad you had a successful probation. We are praying the same for our son.

Anotherbrokenheart,

I am not sure I can add to anything Independent has said, as he is a very intelligent man and understands the criminal justice system very well. He is one of my best and most trusted friends as we have known each other for several years. Anything Independent tells you is probably something you can take to the bank, as he is the real deal.

Before we even begin, I want you to know that your son has encountered a dilemma that almost all innocent defendants face, and that dilemma is compounded by the fact that he is now on probation.

Our criminal justice system is not equipped nor does it know how to handle or treat men who are innocent. The system is just not set up for innocent men or women since, in a perfect world, only the guilty would ever be convicted. So, as far as the criminal justice or penal system is concerned, if a person was convicted of a crime, he is guilty.

Your son’s dilemma is that he is attempting to maintain his innocence after agreeing and signing a plea agreement in which he admitted guilt to the crime for which he was convicted. I fully understand the dilemma, as I was innocent, but I did not plead guilty via a plea bargain; I went to trial, so my claims of innocence had a little more validity than the claims of a person who has already admitted guilt in front of a judge at sentencing and now wants to proclaim his innocence. He cannot have it both ways, really. When a plea agreement is signed, the judge looks at the plea as an admission of guilt by the offender and is treated accordingly.

While I hate the system with a passion and am ALWAYS on the side of the offender, you can see the system’s point when they see an offender admitting guilt at sentencing and then proclaiming innocence during probation.

You said that he failed his first incidence polygraph. You asked, “How many so’s are being violated for failing these pseudo-science polygraphs?”

RSOs are not usually violated for failing an polygraph unless they say something in the interview after the polygraph that is an admission that they have broken the rules of probation. Usually, a failed polygraph results in the PO placing more restrictions on the offender, such as a curfew, more therapy, etc. He should take Independent’s advice on preparing for a polygraph to help him pass.

Btw, he is not trying to say he is innocent during the polygraph after pleading guilty, is he???

You said, “The Somms program states he has to admit guilt in order to complete the program. My son remains steadfast that the other party was consenting. He performed oral sex on her at a college party. There was heavy under age drinking. They are about 4 months apart in age. She did not file any charges.”

Now we are addressing the dilemma I spoke of earlier. Look, I know how these parties are with young people and I 100% believe your son regarding what happened. I believe he was innocent and the other party was consenting. Unfortunately, he already pled guilty and admitted to a crime when he negotiated and signed a plea agreement with the prosecution. So now the criminal justice system intends on holding him to that guilty plea.

I am assuming that he pled guilty. Did he by any chance go to trial???

In the SOMM program as along as he proclaims his innocence after pleading guilty in a plea bargain, he can expect some problems. As disgusting as it seems to him, he may have to learn to “play the game” and---within reason---tell the SOMM administrators what they want to hear. He may have to play the game just to get through the program.

He does not have to come right out and say he was guilty as hell. He can use a variation and say he thought the young lady consented and at no time did he forcibly sexually assault her. He can make it appear as if he had no idea he was breaking the law. A story such as that---or a story similar----may or may not be closer to the truth, but it is a little easier to explain by a man who is sure he is innocent.

Mentioning that he was intoxicated on the night in question is a good idea as it takes some of the burden off the offender, yet he agrees he was guilty. It is much better to have had sex with someone while intoxicated than forcibly sexually assault them.

I often tell probationers----and even inmates----that sometimes they have to “play the game” to keep the peace and get through a certain situation. No, it is not pleasant, but you have to realize that the balance of power is greatly shifted to the administrators of the program and not the offender. He might have to make up a few white lies to get through the program. Hell, it does not matter since probation is nothing but a game anyway. In his heart he knows he was innocent.

The whole damn criminal justice system to an extent is just a game and those who learn to play the game well are usually the ones that do well.

You said, “Has anyone else had experience with being threatened with violating probation for failing polygraphs? Even if they are not admissible?”

A polygraph is not admissible in a court of law or a trial, but it is used extensively in the supervision of sex offenders.

Mom, I know your son is young and this is tough on him. I also know, from working with mothers over the years, that you are suffering as much as your son. If you have any questions, message me. I believe we know each other from previous encounters and I want to help you and your son.

Before I go, I want to copy and paste a long message I posted on another message board on how to deal with polygraphs. I will post it below.

Rewdiazepam

Here is the message I posted on another forum--------------

When an offender takes a polygraph, there are a couple of things to remember.

First, he must not allow the examiner to use the results of a polygraph as a type of interrogation session against him. Turning the polygraph into an interrogation with the purpose of getting the offender to talk too much is one of the main aims of the polygraph.

If one of the questions show deception----or even an inconclusive result---- sometimes the examiner will badger and pester the offender about why he showed deception or an inconclusive on that question. He will want the offender to give him a reason as to why he failed the question. Most of the time the offender is telling the truth and he has no idea why he failed a certain question, but the examiner will dig and dig and dig for a reason.

As a result, if he has a failed question and is asked why he thinks he failed, he needs to keep his answer short and sweet. He can say, “I have no idea why I failed,” or “I was not being deceptive,” or something equally as short. The very last thing the offender should do is go off into left field on a tangent with a possible reason he might have failed. The normal tendency on the part of the offender is to try to explain why he failed a certain question, but that always gets offenders in trouble.

The examiner wants to get the offender talking to learn about what else is going on in his life while on probation. I treat a polygraph much like talking to the police in an interrogation as a suspect. Keep your answers short, very short, and do not give out any extra information AT ALL.

To give you a more specific example, let’s say that one of the questions was, “Have you abided by the terms of your curfew?” The offender would say, “Yes.” But the polygraph either showed deception or an inconclusive on that question. The examiner may start digging on why he failed that question. The offender should just say, “I don’t know.”----and keep it at that.

Here is what the offender definitely does NOT want to say when trying to explain why he failed the curfew question------“Well, let’s see, I did go to the grocery store, then to McDonalds to pick up something to eat one night. And I went to shoot some pool a few nights ago, but then after that I stopped by and picked up a few items from the drug store.” The offender here is giving away far too much detail in trying to explain why he failed the question. Giving away too much detail can open a whole new can of worms and get the offender in hot water, even if what he did was totally innocent and not against the rules of his probation. Remember, short and sweet----“I don’t know why my answer was inconclusive; I told the truth.” And then keep his mouth shut.

Polygraph examiners may appear to be nice guys----and some probably are-----but they are still working for the state and many do not mind tripping up an offender. I knew the polygrapher in our town who worked for the local PD and this guy was pure trash, so be careful.

Do NOT give the examiner a lot of information to work with in an attempt to trip him up.

The other thing to remember is that for the most part, it is difficult to revoke someone for failing a polygraph without more evidence of wrongdoing. Polygraphs are highly fallible and everyone knows it. If there is a failure, the most the PO will usually do is tighten up his restrictions. Failures or inconclusives on questions are not uncommon, so if he does not pass with flying colors, it is not the end of the world.

Tell him to breathe properly and tell the truth. He will do fine.

rewdiazepam

Rew, thank you for the reply. Hope your are feeling better.
My son did go to trial. She claimed she didn’t remember anything from the night and the judge gave my son 10years (8 to be served) He served 3 and is now out on probation. He has maintained his innocence but does admit to under age drinking,

I will pass on this info to him, I am so grateful for this support. Thank you, God Bless

When I did the full history poly I remember the examiner was pretty forceful in asking questions. Your son will need to be confident in his answers.

Like Rew said, I think the best thing is for him to lean on is he was also intoxicated. I also think the fact he was a kid when this happened should help in therapy. It’s not like he had been drinking for years and knew she was too intoxicated to consent, they were both not sober and both kids.

Tell your son that on probation his PO is basically god. The only way to win at probation is to be less of a nuisance than every other person on your PO’s caseload. Walk the straight and narrow path. On probation he will have to take maintenance polygraphs where they will see if he is following his rules. Those polys are so much easier when you have done nothing you feel bad about. Rew has great advice on polys!

To be the best probationer it’s easy to say but hard to do. First, Complete therapy as soon as possible. Get a job, any job at first and build up from there. Have a plan for bettering yourself for the future. That could be going to college, or a trade school or a program at work. Something that you can articulate to your PO so they know you have your mind in the right place. And if you can do all this without your PO getting on your back to get a job or finish therapy, probation will fly by and you will be done before you know it.

And he is lucky to have a mother who loves him and wants to help him succeed. My parents kicking my butt to move on, to not feel sorry for myself was a godsend. I now am married and have had a stable job for 12 years. Yes my parents were also there when it was unbearable too, but their main message was that I could do probation, that it wasn’t impossible to move on. It all looked so daunting at first. They encouraged action, and independence (they didn’t want me living with them forever haha).

You have a crucial role to play in helping your son, he is so lucky to have you!

Thank you both so much for your support and advice. He has a full time job and is living on his own. He will succeed. His P.O. has been somewhat supportive. He’s attending every meeting, etc on time and in business professional attire. He’s just so overwhelmed by the thought of having to go back that some days it’s paralyzing. I like your advice to tell him he can do it and not to feel sorry for himself. He’s got so much going for him. We just don’t trust the system.

Thanks again. It’s great to have support.

I should add that he completed his associates in prison.

Rew, independant 2014 or anyone else- Does anyone know of any states that DONT USE polys as a form of sex offender therapy/ probation? While I know most states do use polys, I cant remember if I heard Ohio or Colorado dont use polys? Also, is there any links anyone would suggest or any research to see which counties/states are the best of the worst so to speak as quality of life for post incarceration? I have heard Texas, and Florida are the worst. Can anyone suggest the areas to consider to get off probation and registration after 5,10,15 years or so?