Don't you think it all boils down to the popular puritanical facade that our society likes to perpetuate? Politicians, activists and religions preach about family values and all that nonsense. When the most vocally conservative politicians end up getting outed with illegitimate children, affairs, homosexuality and prostitution scandals. It seems we're scared and ashamed of our own collective sexuality. And everyone can agree that kids should not be sexualized so we get to pile all of our fear and loathing on anyone ACCUSED of anything remotely inappropriate to make ourselves (as a society) feel better about our own comparatively "harmless" freak flags.

Advocate:
“I do not think that one way or the other is bad or good or the “right” way to make a difference in these archaic laws. I also do not think that we have to remind anyone that for the majority of sex offenses there is a physical victim no more than we have to remind anyone that there is a victim in a murder, armed robbery, or home evasion etc. Obviously we would not have laws in any county unless there was a victim involved.”
I am not saying there is a right way or a wrong way, just a way that will be more successful for our public image. Like I have said before all 3 of the main arguments all have merit; however, they all are better in different arenas. We are presenting our best legal argument to the general public and they are responding with “What about the children?” Our perceived response of the public’s hysteric remark is that we keep on talking about our legal rights being violated. It does not matter what the truth is, it matters what people perceive is the truth. Perception equals reality. We cannot continue to bash our heads into the wall with the current approach, it is literal insanity. What you are essentially saying is, “I do not care what the public believes, I know the truth and they are wrong”. I cannot agree more with that sentiment that we have the truth on our side, but I cannot agree less with what to do with that information.

We are in a repeated cycle of conversation and we need to do something to bust out of it. To get our movement out of the rut, I am suggesting we take the mantra of Circles of Accountability and Support, “No more victims” and make it our own. We need a PR facelift in the worst way and the horrifying thing from my eyes is that most people in our movement do not even think we need one.

“I also do not think that We as a group should constantly talk about how bad thing are for us (as in whining) however I do not see talking about how bad things are as whining – I see it as making a point that no other type of crime follows one, labels one, and effects one’s everyday life AFTER they have served their sentence and paid their debt to society. It is not about forgetting the victim or ignoring the victim it is about education for others that these laws are violations of each RSOs civil and Constitutional rights. I have never heard an RSO say that they did not think they should have to atone for their crime (except those that were falsely accused) or that they did not think about their victim (except those that have no direct victim) … When people talk about how bad it is they are not whining and detracting from the victim – they are saying treat me fairly like anyone else that has served their sentence.
To me that is the best argument against these laws – the truth. They are unjust all the way around and I for one and not going to play their game. It is not about the RSOs or the victims – it is about recognizing that these HUMANS have paid their court sanctioned sentence and are entitled to continue their lives like any other person that has broken the law and served their sentence - that should be the end of it.”

Again my argument is not that, “treat sex offenders fairly” is a wrong sentiment to have. I 100% agree with that statement, I have been on the list, I know what it is like, I committed my crime as a young teen and continue to have to pay for it well into my adult years. I am saying it is not fair, it is not right, it is unjust, it is unconstitutional, whatever other wording you want to input there, it is plain wrong. I am also clearly agreeing with you that your point of the truth is our best legal argument. What I am saying, very simply put, it does not play well to the general public.

Public relations 101, perception equals reality. Do you not believe that? How would you suggest winning the war of public ideas with the general public?

Advocate:
“I do not think that one way or the other is bad or good or the “right” way to make a difference in these archaic laws. I also do not think that we have to remind anyone that for the majority of sex offenses there is a physical victim no more than we have to remind anyone that there is a victim in a murder, armed robbery, or home evasion etc. Obviously we would not have laws in any county unless there was a victim involved.”

I am not saying there is a right way or a wrong way, just a way that will be more successful for our public image. Like I have said before all 3 of the main arguments all have merit; however, they all are better in different arenas. We are presenting our best legal argument to the general public and they are responding with “What about the children?” Our perceived response of the public’s hysteric remark is that we keep on talking about our legal rights being violated. It does not matter what the truth is, it matters what people perceive is the truth. Perception equals reality. We cannot continue to bash our heads into the wall with the current approach, it is literal insanity. What you are essentially saying is, “I do not care what the public believes, I know the truth and they are wrong”. I cannot agree more with that sentiment that we have the truth on our side, but I cannot agree less with what to do with that information.

We are in a repeated cycle of conversation and we need to do something to bust out of it. To get our movement out of the rut, I am suggesting we take the mantra of Circles of Accountability and Support, “No more victims” and make it our own. We need a PR facelift in the worst way and the horrifying thing from my eyes is that most people in our movement do not even think we need one.

“I also do not think that We as a group should constantly talk about how bad thing are for us (as in whining) however I do not see talking about how bad things are as whining – I see it as making a point that no other type of crime follows one, labels one, and effects one’s everyday life AFTER they have served their sentence and paid their debt to society. It is not about forgetting the victim or ignoring the victim it is about education for others that these laws are violations of each RSOs civil and Constitutional rights. I have never heard an RSO say that they did not think they should have to atone for their crime (except those that were falsely accused) or that they did not think about their victim (except those that have no direct victim) … When people talk about how bad it is they are not whining and detracting from the victim – they are saying treat me fairly like anyone else that has served their sentence.
To me that is the best argument against these laws – the truth. They are unjust all the way around and I for one and not going to play their game. It is not about the RSOs or the victims – it is about recognizing that these HUMANS have paid their court sanctioned sentence and are entitled to continue their lives like any other person that has broken the law and served their sentence - that should be the end of it.”

Again my argument is not that, “treat sex offenders fairly” is a wrong sentiment to have. I 100% agree with that statement, I have been on the list, I know what it is like, I committed my crime as a young teen and continue to have to pay for it well into my adult years. I am saying it is not fair, it is not right, it is unjust, it is unconstitutional, whatever other wording you want to input there, it is plain wrong. I am also clearly agreeing with you that your point of the truth is our best legal argument. What I am saying, very simply put, it does not play well to the general public.

Public relations 101, perception equals reality. Do you not believe that? How would you suggest winning the war of public ideas with the general public?

Nak:
“The only victim in my son's case was him. Along with a bunch of others who are in the same position as he is. I won't bow down to 'think about their victim' . No apologies from here.”

I am not asking you to bow down to anyone’s victim, I understand you are in a very different situation than others. I am asking everyone to think about what is going to be the best for our movement in general.

Wanderingaround:
“Don't you think it all boils down to the popular puritanical facade that our society likes to perpetuate? Politicians, activists and religions preach about family values and all that nonsense. When the most vocally conservative politicians end up getting outed with illegitimate children, affairs, homosexuality and prostitution scandals. It seems we're scared and ashamed of our own collective sexuality. And everyone can agree that kids should not be sexualized so we get to pile all of our fear and loathing on anyone ACCUSED of anything remotely inappropriate to make ourselves (as a society) feel better about our own comparatively "harmless" freak flags.”

I am not as interested in how things came to be. I have my own beliefs on that, I largely think it was and is the media running with if it bleeds it leads news stories that have been sensationalized and has gotten everyone in a worry tizzy. Politicians jumped on board because they at first thought it was a problem and by golly they were going to legislate out of being a problem. Then they saw they can guarantee elections by being “tough on crime” and they have continue to do so ever since. What I see happening in politics is that this is the one thing most politicians on both sides can agree upon. It is gimme-legislation that shows how tough they are on crime. And of course you are right, humans throughout history like to rationalize their behavior, “At least I am not like that guy over there…”

I am more interested in what now. How do we go about changing the belief of the public?

My situation is not that different to others. People think my son was guilty because he had to plead guilty. My son and I have been among people who are innocent. My daughter knows people who are on the registry and who are innocent. There's is not account for how many people are innocent as opposed to guilty. or variations there of. I think people would be surprised to know just what that percentage is. You may think you know but I'd like to see your statistics on that.. I have my own and it's called 'talking to others who were entrapped as well'. This forum is not the only place I get my info.

This 'movement' is multi faceted and there is no one correct way to address it.

I AM interested in how things came to be. I think people need to be educated on these crappy laws came about.

I agree with you Nak - although my son did purposely look at porn it is not something that a teenage young man should be punished for and branded for the rest of his life - he paid his price now let him go on and have a productive life

Maybe you can tell me the percentage of people .. of the over 800,000 people on the registry, what percentage actually did something, actually downloaded with intent to watch, who touched a child, or sexually abused anyone in any manner. What percentage of those over 800,000 were guilty? 99%? 95%, 90%.. what's your guess.
and I agree with you Advocate. Your son actually looked and he shouldn't be punished for this either, but that' just part of the statistics that we don't have. and never will. So according to the rest of the world we have a bunch of sexually sick people to the tune of 800,000 who have been caught and our government is constantly on the lookout for more deviants. Sex police

I guess I see it differently - I do not give one fig about winning the hearts and minds of the general public - number one they will find out soon enough because eventually this hell will touch many more families and or their friends and I will not have to explain the issue to them. It is just plain wrong - it would be wrong for any crime - a judge gives you a sentence - you complete it and that should be the end of it. It is not my job to educate the public about it in any other way than that it is a violation of basic human rights and freedoms! - Period.

In my opinion all this other rhetoric about how to make the public understand I care not. The laws and over-criminalization will take care of that soon enough -

Correct Nak - my son should pay a price to society and he did - but now that his sentence is over he continues to pay dearly in his everyday life - he cannot go where he wants to, he cannot live where he wants to, he cannot work where he wants to ... and on and on. He is on a public hit list - that is atrocious and I say that not only a mother but as a USA citizen!

Lets keep in mind as well. Every person who is accused of a sex crime is prosecuted and I doubt even 1% of those accused is let go free.

I agree Advocate. That's really the only answer to this. Look at history. Only when this kind of thing hits enough people will it begin to be addressed. The public like having a bad guy to point fingers to..

If you are looking for a place to start Nak, I would start with

http://www.innocenceproject.org/faqs/how-many-innocent-people-are-there-in-prison

Their estimate is no more than 5% of the population is innocent. I have seen it as low from some criminologists as 1%. So anywhere from 1-5% would be my answer.

So in essence Advocate and Nak we should just continue bashing our heads into the wall until enough people get on the registry and it eventually changes?

What I have learned about the public in the last few decades is that most of them follow the lead of what the government and media tells them - you know a lot of people think the part of our countries motto that says Home of the Brave refers to our military - it does not - it refers to a group of people that had the gonads to stand up for violations of human and civil rights and took on the biggest government in the World at the time. They did it because it was the right thing to do - those kinds of citizens exist today but they are so rare.

If you sat down with anyone today and described a teenage young man that was gifted intellectually, did all the right, things - he made a stupid mistake because of an over active teenage libido - and then paid his price but was sanctioned for the rest of his life in so many ways - if you told most people that they would be appalled and cry out that is wrong - but throw that label in there and walla it is ok because the government is keeping us safe form those monsters - no I do not have a lot of respect for the majority of my fellow citizens anymore - and that was before what happened to my son - now it is even less

Number one - I do not bash my head into a wall at all - you do what you want to and to each their own. And like all statistics (which any estimate is not really a statistic) think about this - sex crimes are convicted with absolutely zero evidence - innocent or guilty. Anyone that is in prison and got there with absolutely NO evidence means that there also is NO evidence to prove their innocence - without evidence they are not going to be in innocent statistics - they will remain in the guilty statistic. That does not make them any less innocent in reality Also to get a true statistics of the number of RSOs convicted when they were actually innocent you will have to look at just RSOs - bet the innocence project skips right over those guys

The innocence project doesn't know. I've been in contact with them in Floriduh. I went back and forth with them for my son. They agreed he had a case but wouldn't look at it because he didn't have a long prison sentence. This crime is not something they focus on and I doubt they have statistics on it.