yes it's odd how my son refuses to eat here too - when I finally persuaded him to visit me, he brought a friend for 'backup' and even though he knew I'd bought pizza for them to eat, they went to macdonalds before catching the bus, so they could refuse my pizza! I also bought cake - which they were reluctant to eat - I said don't worry - it's not like Persephone in the underworld or anything - it's not going to force you to remain forever! So they ate a little cake. They could not get enough cola though - score! Who knows what lies behind this strange behaviour - a determination to prove their independence maybe? And they also refused to take off their coats and hats - in a warm, heated house! How they stood it I can't imagine - they stayed 2 hours.
What really got me about the eating thing was it was dinner time - I thought they'd surely be hungry, so kept asking them anxiously if they were sure they didn't want me to fix the pizza after all - they kept refusing. After an hour of this, I was told they'd been to macdonalds! So I'd wasted an hour of our precious time together fussing, which is something my son hates about my behaviour - it's like I was set up! Over all he seems to want to prove that he doesn't need me for anything now. He misinterprets my simply caring about him, as being overbearing and controlling.
The only way I could even get him to visit in the first place was to literally grovel in an email followed by an hour on the phone - admit I've been a terrible mother, apologize profusely for my awful character flaws, reassure him that I love him and miss him, and put the ball in his court, begging him to allow me into his life again, assuring him I was a changed person and saying I hoped he could forgive and forget and make a fresh start, and tolerate my existence as his mother.
Really what's happened here is a power shift. He has a manly ego and wants to be respected. I am a caring, helpful mother and was devoted to raising him as a child - or as he sees it, I was interfering and controlling.
There has needed to be a complete about-turn in the power dynamic of our relationship - I have become the helpless humble one, who tries to please, and he is the powerful one now who makes the decisions - a reversal of our role when he was a child. This is the only way he's let me back in his life, to a very limited and unsatisfactory extent - but at least he's not cut me out of his life completely - he was threatening a restraining order at one point, just because I was desperate to have some contact with him.
It's very sad I think, but I don't call the shots any more in our relationship. All I want to do is be a loving, caring mother, but he finds that diminishes him somehow as a young adult trying to prove himself in the world. I just have to accept his point of view or lose him forever.
I was estranged from my own mother for years at a time for the same reason, when I was his age. My mother knew what was best for me - yes I can see that now I'm paying for all my mistakes the hard way! But at the time I needed to prove my independence and competence, and we were estranged for many years because she refused to eat humble pie and back down and apologise for interfering and criticising me constantly (as I saw it). I only got back in touch with her a couple of years ago, when I turned 50. So I know how stubborn a young adult can be about this - I don't want to lose my son for the next 30 years, so I just have to accept his terms and be thankful I'm allowed any contact at all. Ugh! It's torture!

Edana:

From what I read on here, most problems Mothers have seem to be with sons. Perhaps I just pay more attention to those. Your comments about power are probably spot on correct. We raised them more so than their fathers and now they need to feel they can live without us. Even to contact us probably makes them feel they are back under our control again and not their control so they don't do it. Perhaps they feel again that they are not strong enough. If only they could realize I don't want control anymore -- or at least I don't think I do. I just want to be recognized as a person, someone that perhaps he still thinks about, but the way things are I sometimes feel like I'm not even thought of when I'm not around.

I was so upset today that I left our Bible Study group. Someone found me and asked if I was ok. I told her not really. Word got to my son that I was upset about something -- he hadn't gotten to church yet. He tried to all me but I had my phone on vibrate and he called his father to ask what was going on. My husband told him it wasn't something to talk about on the phone. My son asked "is this about me" to which my husband told him that it just needed to rest until we could talk in person. Why would he ask "is it about me"? Anyway, this is killing me inside so somehow things have either got to change from what my son is wiling to do in communication, I have to accept things for what they are or we have to meet somewhere in the middle. I have never felt such pain/rejection/??? in my entire life. My self-worth, self-confidence are shot.. I cannot continue to live this way.

OH, how I can relate to these posts!!!! For me, the sad fact is that I NEED MY SONS BUT THEY DO NOT NEED ME!! My younger son even said to me one time "Mom, you need to let me go!" LOL!! HOW?? Both my sons were my LIFE and I sacrificed SO MUCH for them and now I am lucky if I even see them once a month!! They do call weekly but it sure did not turn out the way I had envisioned. My expectations were for a close family even into their adulthood..NOT happening!! It DOES hurt and the pain and rejection has certainly done a number on my self esteem. I guess society puts that pressure on young men to NOT be "Momma's boys." SIGH!!!! HUGS TO YOU ALL MOMS who are here reading this!!!

I think it is easy to take the 'rejection' personally, when it's nothing more than youthful thoughtlessness. I messaged my son today and he ignored it, again, and then again - I felt more and more hurt by each 'rejection', so I phoned him, got put on voicemail - started panicking that I'd never see him or hear from him again - that I'd done something wrong. Then he called me! He was at girlfriend's house and had been busy chatting to other friends on messenger. Yes he'd been alerted to my messages, but ignored them - but only because he was 'very busy' (talking to more interesting people I guess) It was nothing personal - but I had taken it personally and found it upsetting because I blew it up out of proportion, and made it a big deal. So I wonder who's problem is that - is it my problem, or is it his? It seems to be my problem? I am taking things to heart too much I guess. Taking offence where none was intended.
Obviously, if I think about it, I will miss him more than he misses me. How can he miss me, in his new, shiny, exciting life full of interesting young people and fun activities? He's just not going to miss me, when he has so many pleasant distractions, and I have never been part of the picture there. And yet I am still here in 'domestic bliss' (or purgatory!) with a vital piece of the jigsaw missing - my son. So yes I will miss him of course - way more than he'd miss me. So I think I need to LIGHTEN UP (I should write 100 lines of this every morning before starting the day!) and stop taking his behaviour personally - because it's not directed at me - I'm hurt as a side-effect of him having a busy, interesting life. And that is my problem - not his, I think.
Also, he's just a kid - I can't burden him with feeling responsible for my happiness - because really happiness is a state of mind more than anything else - it's a case of appreciating what I have, rather than being upset over what I don't have. I get angry with my son for being thoughtless and offhand with me - but really I need to forgive him for it, just as I'd like to be forgiven for all the times I've inadvertently hurt someone - I really don't think there's any malice behind my son's behaviour - he just finds me to be an uptight, fussy, serious-minded adult (and I have been forced to see that yes he may be right there!) whereas he just wants to have fun, because that's what young people are about - life is an adventure when you're young, and parents are like an anchor, holding them in the same spot when they want to explore the world.
Maybe sons tend to be more adventurous and freedom-loving than girls, but when I was my son's age, I was exactly the same - packed a bag and ran away to London as I was sick of my mother nagging me to get a job. Back then there were no computers, mobile phones or anything. She had no idea what I was doing. At least I can see on messenger when my son was last online - so I know he's alive - I'm sure I would lose my mind if I only had snail-mail to rely on. In fact I was thinking today, what it must have been like for mothers in Medieval times - their sons leaving home to fight endless battles - away for years - probably never seeing them again or even knowing what had become of them. How heartbreaking, to have son after son marching off to war. So then I was thankful - I think it could be much worse than it is for me now. So - I managed to be perky, upbeat and lighthearted during our phone call - obliging and agreeable - basically how he wants me to be, rather than demanding, critical and needy (which is my true nature haha - please keep that secret). He can't possibly understand how I feel - so rather than expect him to be considerate, I am bearing in mind the advice from 'Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus' - which is pretty accurate I think, although a generalisation - that MOST men need to be told what you want from them. Whereas MOST women are thoughtful of how others may be feeling - men need to be told. Most women care about how others are feeling - Most men just want to have a nice, simple, easy time - that's all - no pressure, no guessing games. Which is why I pursued my son today till he called me. I am not going to hang around any more, hoping that he intuitively and thoughtfully gets in touch with me (and getting hurt when he doesn't) because it's very unlikely to happen! And since he's basically a nice boy and not ignoring me maliciously - just being a little thoughtless - he will not mind me contacting him, will he? Not unless I'm a demanding, whining drag, that is - so I must also try to be as lighthearted and fun as he is. This is hard work - I wonder if I might get an Oscar nomination for unnatural perkiness in a few months time *hopes* I will always be a serious, 'deep' kind of person, but my son doesn't want to see that side of me - and if I want to see him at all, I have to hide it, put on a mask. That is something I've decided to do - I hope it works.....

Adena:

I always put on a happy face, even though I do not feel it inside. I guess it would be nice to just be part of the adventure -- even if that part is just to know of the adventure, hear the plans and hear some of the results -- we might not want to know all of them. Sometimes I just wish my son might see something funny, know I would think it was funny and then share it with me. My son and I used to have belly laughs together until we cried. I miss those moments. Oh well. I need to move on, somehow. I do not wish him to come home, just to be some little part of his life more than I feel I am now.

yes it's hard to know that we are no longer needed. I think this is why I decided to change my behaviour, humble myself and ask him to forgive me and just tolerate me as his mother, stay in touch with me, phone me once a fortnight, visit once a month - I don't think that's too much to ask for. Otherwise our relationship will wither away and die from neglect, as all relationships do. So if I have to do the running and the pleasing, that's OK by me - he doesn't value our relationship as much as I do.

Until recently I had insisted by my attitude, which I'd always had naturally as a mother, that I was the superior one - the more knowledgeable one. Well I am certainly more knowledgeable than he is, and more experienced and capable, and I naturally wanted to help him wherever I saw he was lacking in these things (he's not practical at all).
But he didn't find it helpful - he found it disrespectful towards him as an adult, and it angered him as a child too. So although he was forced to accept my superiority when he was a child, he just walked away, once he was old enough, as his pride and self respect were wounded by me being superior all the time. Mother knows best, but he needs me to back off and show him some respect, have faith in his abilities and good nature. I had to give him power over our relationship, and humble myself - accept that I was no longer in charge, before he would let me back into his life again in any small way.

I've seen with my own mother and our difficult relationship, which was caused by her exact same attitude towards me (yes I turned into my mother!) She always saw it as her parental duty to correct me because she knew best, so our relationship was dominated by her trying to guide, correct and control me, with the best of intentions, rather than just being my friend. Although it broke my heart as we were very close when I was a child, I eventually cut her out of my life because of her attitude.
I don't want my son to do the same to me - and he will if I can't back off and lighten up - become a friend rather than a parent to him. It's so hard though, when I see him making 'mistakes' all the time! And I could help! So hard to resist being 'helpful' when you love someone. But it diminishes him - I have to accept that, or I know what the consequences will be.

The other thing my son's been trying to run away from is our shared past. He was quite a delinquent in his youth, really terrible, and I made huge sacrifices to help him through that time and straighten him out. Even though he's changed now he's grown up, this difficult time still hangs between us - I can't help but remind him of a version of himself he wants to forget - he says that child is dead - he wants to wipe his childhood out. But it's hard for him to forget it and move on when people from his past are still around as a reminder. And it's been very hard for me to forget too - hard for me to trust him and believe he's changed.
So he has sought out a brand new social circle - people who don't know about his past, and he's happy with the 'fresh start' this has given him. The challenge for me is pretending the past never happened, when it's had such a huge impact on my own life! But that's what I must do - he'll cut me out of his life otherwise.

I need to have faith, lighten up and back off - and apologize when I slip into my old ways! I have no idea if this will improve our relationship or if I'll still lose him anyway - but it's worth a try - I've really got nothing to lose! I nearly died before Christmas due to a freak medical condition I never knew I had. When I was rushed to emergency surgery, I was at peace and prepared to die, because I thought raising my son was the entire purpose of my life, and it was over. But I survived. So I guess I survived for a reason. Being here for my son as a friend rather than a parent, is all that matters to me now - my pride was removed during surgery too I think! I have no intention of 'moving on' as being his mother is still my life. But I don't care about being respected, special and important to him any more - I just want a tiny bit of his attention sometimes, and I'm not going to be shy about asking for it as I know he's too busy having fun to think of me otherwise.

WOW!! GREAT discussion here!! I appreciate the wise words and I am also trying to "lighten up." I need my sons but they don't need me. So, I am TRYING to just enjoy things I enjoy and hope to see them once in awhile. They have been calling now and then and I am working on ACCEPTING that "it is what it is." I have also read posts in the estranged child support group and ACHE for those parents and how awful that would be. I am trying to be thankful and just be PROUD that I have sons who are independent. There will always be a deep ache for "my boys" but I need to just let go. Sigh!

A lot of what's been said here has been helpful to me too. My son acts like everything I say is stupid and annoying. I too try so hard to be happy and upbeat when inside I'm crying from being lonely and missing him. It seems like we went from best friends to enemies. If I question him about his job, girlfriend, car, apartment, friends....anything about his life, he tells me everything IS FINE MOM. In this horrid voice. I sound so pitiful lol Referring to the comment about the moms of ancient times, how their sons went off to war or just left, how it must have made them feel - from what I've read and heard - back then it was expected that the son/sons would leave the house and go off to war etc. Mothers and fathers expected it. There was never enough food to go around and never enough room so it was a joyous occasion when a child left the nest.
Times have certainly changed. I hope everyone here finds some peace within themselves and with their boys.

RascalFlattsFan I agree it's perilous to ask our kids questions about their new lives LOL - we are of course just prying so that we can tell them how to do things better! Well that's what my son thinks anyway ^_^ Is he right? ermmmmm yes I guess so! It was really hard for me recently as my son got a serious chest infection borderline pneumonia - he was asthmatic as a child, which led to me being even more protective of him as he never had 'just a cold' - always serious and weeks off school, nearly died of pneumonia 3 times. So my clucky mother hen instinct went into overdrive when he told me he was seriously ill and had been to hospital! I knew just what he had to do of course, having nursed him so often through it, but he got all hostile again, and I was forced to back off and apologize to him for offering advice when it wasn't asked for - which is the ultimate crime nowadays! So that put me in my place again pretty swiftly - I had to just stand back and hope he survived it. And he did, thank goodness ^_^

It's not that I mean to pry though - I think a lot of the problem is I really have nothing else to talk about to him, so I am trying to fix that by talking about things I know he's interested in - even though I'm not. My ignorance is pitiful though LOL - but I keep trying! Mainly I am finding that brief, DAILY contact online is improving our relationship immensely - he knows I'll message him and tell him I love him, ask him how his day's been, then wish him well and get out of his face, unless he wants to talk. Monosyllabic answers are fine - I know when I'm not wanted, so I don't outstay my welcome. But as the weeks go by he's warming up to me, which is fantastic - I'm really happy with the way things are going between us now as he's starting to trust me NOT to offer unwanted (though excellent!) advice all the time - so he's happy to message me back as he knows I'm not going to go all 'heavy' on him and start interfering in his life, or implying he can't do things properly. He actually phoned me the other night and confided a problem to me, and I managed to sympathize, rather than try and 'fix' it for him. Then I stayed awake all night worrying about it LOL - some things will never change ^_^