I wasn't going to comment on this, but do be leery on these type diets, etc....the body needs a set amount of carbs to properly function, maybe in the beginning things do seem to be going well but down the line you can get into trouble, and if 'this diet" is so good then why isn't everyone pushing it.

Grains are important, they have complex carbs which convert to the energy a body needs to function, they are also known to help people with the fiber needed, vitamins and help against some chronic conditions.

Eating a well rounded and healthy diet is good in the long run

Did I read correctly.. "Stop eating breakfast"? Ummm... no way is that good advice. If you're diabetic skipping meals will likely end badly by the numbers or by the fact you end up overeating later. Breakfast should be your biggest meal since it will fuel your day. Dinner should be the smallest because shortly after dinner is bed where you are inactive.

Over the 20 years I've been diabetic I've seen several doctors, several nutritionist and dieticians along with other folks that have professions in the diabetes world all of which say that. Of course the foods you choose may affect you differently than they do me or someone else. Don't cut all carbs and definitely don't cut all grains. These are part of a healthy diet.

Anyway.. If you have questions about a diet, please please PLEASE see your dr before changing your diet. Take all the info with you about any diet you are considering along with a list of all your meds to be sure there are no interactions and to be sure it's even healthy.

With diabetes there is now way I would give up breakfast and do any fasting. I agree that staying away from certain foods is healthier; I don't eat any breads, potatoes, or pasta. No fried foods. But three meals a day, a couple of healthy snacks, and I am doing great. No way am I going to starve myself; I would be setting myself up for horrible eating binges if I did that.

I have joined a group on Facebook called Type 2 Diabetes Weight Loss Support Group. A lot of them are following the LCHF (low carb/high fat) diet and are loosing weight and pretty much singing its praises. Some of them have found that they longer need to take their meds. I am thinking of gradually going that route but having been diagnosed in January am being careful of making any big changes from what I was told by the diabetic clinic.

There is a difference in low carb dieting and fasting. I do low carb, also, but I would not fast with diabetes. I think it is asking for trouble. I don't think there is anything wrong with some fat in the diet, but I would be careful of high fat, also.

I was diagnosed back in Jan. 2013. I'm thinking I've had this disease too long for this to be effective. I'm thinking I was diabetic some years before but at the time, I ignored the symptoms, just writing it off as happening to anybody.

Hello Again. I do not know why, Mzizgayle, you believe that the body needs a certain amount of carbs, or that grains are important. Nearly every food has, at least, some carbs, but limiting the amount to the extent that one can makes a tremendous difference in one's blood glucose levels. There are plenty of ways to get an abundant amount of fiber into one's daily diet without grains. I have been eating this way since January. I have had great results. Not only have I lost weight (35 pounds), but I have been able to stop taking several medications-- for high blood pressure, heightened cholesterol, and one of the diabetes medications. Tomorrow I am having my 2nd hip surgery (had the first 6 weeks ago. I have not been able to take the Metformin for 2 days prior to surgery. So I have taken NO diabetes medication. Tonight, my BG level was 89.

Dr. Fung is a nephrologist. As such, he was treating many patients who were struggling with both obesity and diabetes. His protocols are based on very sound science-- credible research-- and he is having excellent results. His patients sing his praises and many of them have been participating in his clinic for well over a year. The diet has not had any deleterious effects on them, nor has the intermittent fasting had any negative effects.

Unfortunately, with diabetes, if we do nothing but control our BG levels, the disease will still progress over time. We will take more and more medication and in greater and greater doses. We will kill off the beta cells in our pancreas, so that we no longer produce any insulin. If there is a way to prevent this, why not do so?

No one is going to die or become ill from trying this way of eating, or from eliminating breakfast, or engaging in Intermittent Fasting. Trying this out to see whether one obtains better results will do no harm to anyone. Since we all possess meters and can test, test, test, we are in absolutely no danger whatsoever.

I would encourage anyone who is curious/interested, to google Dr. Jason Fung- Intensive Dietary Management Blog and read the entries, watch the videotaped lectures. It costs nothing. It harms no one to consider whether there is something to be learned. Its certainly better than just believing the doctors, endos, registered dieticians who tell diabetic patients that they are doomed to suffer from a progressive disease, without at least considering that there may very well be a way to prevent that.

I have lost 50 pounds since I was diagnosed on March 17, 2014. I eat everything. Diabetes runs in the family, so I know the devastation it can cause. You need to be careful with those types of diet, they will backfire. I do portion control, half of what I used to eat and now I am even cutting that back too. Today, I had half cup of cheerios, with quarter cup of Oatmeal crisp. I even had 6 small squares of dark chocolate. I count all carbs and try to keep it under 180 carbs a day. I find that if I do not eat enough carbs. those pesky numbers go up.

It has been interesting to follow the discussion after I posted about the topic. There are a great many myths out there-- myths that have guaranteed that those diagnosed with type 2 diabetes WILL worsen, if all they do is work to control their blood glucose levels. Is that not what we see here, in following the various topic discussions-- people lamenting the fact that although they eat a very controlled diet, cut way back on carbs, eliminate sugar, exercise regularly, their condition worsens and they are proscribed more instead of less medication, and end up having to inject insulin???

Several of you have said that eating very-low carb, plentiful healthful fat diets, and adding intermittent fasting is "bad," advice. Yet, there are lots of folks doing this WITH medical supervision (approval) and having real results, rather than just delaying the inevitable slide towards worsening health and more medication, plus great difficulty losing weight and maintaining weight loss.

how then, is it poor advice to investigate this protocol or even try it out on oneself? As we all recognize that using our meters liberally can give us immediate feedback about whether or not our BG increases, decreases, or stays about the same, this makes absolutely no sense. Our doctors did not receive much education about diet for those diagnosed with type 2 diabetes, because the medical profession handed off that responsibility to the registered dieticians. They, in turn, are guided by the American Diabetes Association. That org is funded by the processed food companies, the sugar-beverage producing companies, and the pharmaceutical companies-- ALL of whom benefit when we are addicted to processed foods (carbs + sugar and/or trans fats) and take more and more medications.

Those of us who are eating LCHF diets, engaging in Intermittent Fasting are having excellent results--- reducing our medication dosages or shedding the need for some to all of our meds. We are losing the weight we needed to lose, keeping it off, and feeling more like exercising. We are not hungry. We are not experiencing hypos. We are not experiencing spikes in BG. We are seeing our numbers decrease. We are getting our doctors' attention, so that they are more likely to support what we are doing, even when they were, at first, skeptical, at best.
A low carb, plentiful healthy-fat, substantial fiber, no sugar diet IS a well-rounded diet! We get plenty of carbs-- GOOD carbs (and all carbs are NOT equal) from eating that way. What we do NOT eat are grains. And there is absolutely nothing healthful about grains. Or legumes. Those grains that are whole grains are merely less bad. Not good for us.
The new Science is showing us all that while what we eat is important, WHEN we eat is AS important. Controlling WHAT we eat can and does control our BG levels, as long as we also exercise consistently. However, that only slows the rate at which our bodies deteriorate. That is why those with Type 2 Diabetes end up taking more medications, higher dosages of meds, and then experience complications.
Practicing those ways that we can increase insulin sensitivity, and decrease insulin resistance; heal our beta cells in the pancreas, spill out the insulin in our bodies, reduce and then eliminate the need to inject insulin if we still have some ability to produce insulin-- those are the ways to really fight Type 2 Diabetes. These are not fads. These are not pop-science methods. These are evidence-based methods for combatting Type 2 Diabetes.
I just had a 2nd hip replacement surgery on Wednesday after having had the 1st one six weeks prior. While in the hospital, the nurses and the dieticians were very interested/curious about how I was eating. The director of the food services program came in to talk with me, as that department is making changes to what they offer to their patients. We had a good long discussion about what they currently have on the menu as a so-called diabetic diet, and the fact that it adheres to the American Diabetes Association guidelines, BUT is not really all that healthy (her words). They are wanting to shift to follow current scientific research so that what they offer on the menu is actually healthful AND can be used as a teaching tool with patients. They are recognizing the benefit of intermittent fasting-- for people with Type 2 Diabetes, but also with other medical problems. I was very glad to hear that, and hope that it is not just this, local hospital system that is recognizing the scientific evidence for very low carb, healthful fat, intermittent fasting, but will be adopted across the USA fairly quickly.
Meanwhile, some of the participants in the forum may challenge what I have shared, but cannot challenge the results that I have had, or that others are having who eat this way. I would encourage folks to at least go and look at some of the forums where people with type 2 diabetes ARE eating a ketogenic diet, and engaging in intermittent fasting. No one will suffer any negative consequences from reading!

No one here on this discussion has posted a myth. Some of us have posted scientific facts and some of us have posted OUR PERSONAL experiences. Crazy fad diets are never good. If this is one of those I can't say. I haven't researched it nor do I have any interest in doing so. If there was a cure to diabetes I guarantee you the world would know about it. Unfortunately there is no cure. Much like an alcoholic, once a diabetic always a diabetic (even if you control it with diet and exercise you are still a diabetic).

A reversal is not a cure. No one has found a cure. A reversal means that the individual's insulin resistance has been reduced to the point where he or she was prior to reaching pre-diabetes stage, and his/her insulin sensitivity has been increased through healing the beta cells in the pancreas. It is the rest from eating that restores the pancreas, because (a) the beta cells get a break from producing any insulin due to no food triggering them and (b) the body burns the fat around the pancreas, liver, and other internal organs rather than burning glucose, when one is in a state of ketosis. The scientific research has been published in Pub Med, Diabetes Forecast, and many of our prominent medical centers. It shows that study participants who go on a calorie restriction program (diet that cuts food intake significantly) and study participants who take in less calories due to intermittent fasting protocols BOTH lose about the same amount of weight, and both have their BG levels under good control, BUT its the participants who engage in IF whose insulin sensitivity increases AND beta cells heal so that their insulin resistance decreases. Also, that because the participants go into ketosis and are fat-burning adapted, their ability to sustain eating that way is good because they are not hungry or craving carbs, trans fats, sugar-laden food. They ca lose more weight if they want and need to, or they can keep their weight stable by adding more protein to the diet.
The "myths" I wrote about are that: (a) the human body needs grains (so-called "healthy" grains), (b) that humans need 3 square meals + snacks, (3) that if one is diabetic, fasting is unhealthy and dangerous, (4) that low carb +moderate healthy fat + moderate protein diets are dangerous 5) that intermittent fasting is a "fad" or "pop science."
The current research also has been showing that when humans eat 3 meals per day and snack, they just eat more, overall. The point has been made again and again that humans have not always had enough food available TO eat 3 meals per day, plus snacks, and that plenty of societies and religious groups have engaged in fasting with no negative consequences whatsoever. Many studies are showing that those who inject insulin for T2 D who fast (ONLY WITH MEDICAL SUPERVISION), rapidly decrease the amount of insulin they need to inject by engaging in intermittent fasting. These studies were designed to find out why people who underwent gastric bypass immediately started to have increased insulin sensitivity and decreased insulin resistance BEFORE they lost any weight. What was found is that it is the hormonal changes to the stomach and intestines that brought about these changes, and that the weight loss that followed increased those positive changes. These people are, for all intents and purposes, individuals whose T2 Diabetes is reversed. Intermittent Fasting replicates that, but without the risks of gastric surgery and its potential severe complications.
Intermittent Fasting is hardly a fad. Fasting has been and is a normal human practice that societies all over the world, and over thousands of years have engaged in on a regular basis. There are also varied ways TO fast. Many people fast 2 days per week, but eat 500 calories on their fasting days. Others (this is the way I do it), do not eat 2X per week (I only have coffee with cream on the fasting days). Others eat within a window each day i.e. fast for 16 hours (including the time they sleep at night), breaking their fast later in the day-- at lunchtime.
What IS a well-known fact is that if we, who have been diagnosed with T2 Diabetes eat according to the American Diabetes Association guidelines, exercise regularly and adequately, we can lose weight and we can achieve good control over our blood glucose levels. HOWEVER, over time, we WILL have our insulin resistance increase so that eventually, our beta cells will become more and more damaged until they die off and we won't produce any insulin, and then we will have to inject insulin. Maintaining our weight will increasingly become an uphill battle. T2 Diabetes WILL progress.
Again, I am a scientist, myself. I have conducted scientific research. I know how to separate credible research from pop science
(Mickey Mouse research). I look for a strong research design, large study populations, length of study over a very long period of time instead of merely a few weeks or months, studies that are repeated a number of times-- the more the better, research that is conducted by one of our trusted institutions (Harvard, Yale, etc...), studies that are not contaminated by the food industry or pharmaceutical companies funding them AND having access to the way the studies are conducted and then written up, AND who was paid to write up the study conclusions (another way that research can be corrupted). If the Science does not support a particular medicine or way of managing Diabetes or heart health, etc... than I am too skeptical to consider taking a risk because I am desperate to fight back against a diagnosis that I have received. At the same time, I know enough to question-- even challenge-- traditional medicine, when it is not truly acting in my best interests. My doctors, who were understandably skeptical, have become interested and have now read the research. They are on-board with what I am doing, and are encouraging other patients to do it too. With great results.
Again-- yes, our body DOES need some carbs because nearly any and every food we eat has some carbs. Our body also needs fiber, and so-called healthy gains are hardly the only source of fiber. Any and all of the vitamins we get from the whole-wheat or other whole grains can be obtained from other foods, and many to most of what we obtain from whole grain products have had to be artificially added back in through processing.
Skipping breakfast or other meals is not a problem for those who have been diagnosed with T2 Diabetes, unless they have had it for a long time, and are now injecting insulin. In that case, they should consider eating this way and intermittent fasting only under medical supervision. The main meal ought to be LUNCH and not breakfast OR dinner. One does not need to consult with a doctor in order to experiment, as long as you are testing with a meter regularly so that you can see the effects of WHAT one eats, and WHEN one eats.
I also want to emphasize that its a good idea to gradually move towards eating this way, and towards fasting. Adding sufficient healthy-fats (olive oil, avocado, cooking with coconut oil, some nuts, 100% grass-fed butter, a little heavy cream-- are all possibilities) for the carbs (grains, sugar, root vegetables, most fruits), and one's body adapts to eating that way, THEN it is possible to gradually introduce intermittent fasting without feeling that one is starving. Most people start gradually-- simply breaking one's fast later and later, increasing the amount of time between dinner and break-fast the following day. One learns that you can distract yourself when you feel a little hungry, and eat when and if you really need to. The research studies have shown that people do NOT overeat when they finally break the fast, as long as their bodies have been adapted to burning fat instead of glucose for fuel.

Thank you, janebrown, for all the knowledge you have shared with us. You have taught me a lot. I don't think I will try the fasting end, but I am researching the main ideas you have stated. I think it is great to be able to get so much education from a forum like this, whether we agree with one another or not. I always learn something from someone out there.

We agree on the last paragraph of the last response Jane. :) enter into any new diet slowly, be sure you are getting all the vitamins you need and insulin dependent diabetics should be eating a breakfast.

I skipped meals in the past pre and post diabetes. I found by skipping meals I overate when it was "grub" time. What works for some may not work for others. That's true of diet, medications, and just about in every facet of life. If it's working for you that's great. and hopefully it'll work for others too. I hate hearing about diabetics that have to go on insulin...

Best of luck and health in your future.

Hi Jody and All,
I did not say that this or any diet can "cure" T2 Diabetes. There are doctors, RNs, endocrinologists, and other medical professionals who are suggesting that some people who undergo gastric bypass surgery ARE cured, however. They tell us that these individuals no longer need medications for T2 Diabetes, and that these changes happen right away due the fact that hormones involved are no longer able to be secreted into the lining of the stomach and into the small intestines-- before they lose the weight they will lose as a result of the surgical changes.
Reversing T2 Diabetes means that one is no longer needing diabetes medication as long as you eat this way and practice IF. With a pancreas that has been healed, and with beta cells restored, insulin resistance decreases back to pre-pre-diabetes level, and insulin sensitivity is restored back to where that person was before he/she became pre-diabetic. If the individual starts eating sugar, processed food, trans fat, and high carb, he or she will certainly have T2 Diabetes return and progress. -- that is not a cure. You and I both know that, Jody, and I am not saying anything contrary to that.
However, this is not a "fad" diet. It is backed by current research-- something that many family practitioners, internists, endocrinologists, and registered dietitians do not keep up with. They count on the American Diabetes Association establishing guidelines that they can preach to patients. That information is FAR from adequate to keep us healthy, although if one follows the guidelines it is true that the progression of the disease is slowed. However, it guarantees that it WILL progress, and patients WILL have to take more medication and eventually inject insulin. That is what we all do not want-- and I imagine we agree 150% about that, too.
INDIVIDUAL experience and opinions don't always stand up against Science. Current research findings are the best we have found, thus far, to be the ways to contend with particular medical diseases/conditions. As we learn more, medical advice changes, but it does so slowly. That is because doctors are busy using the knowledge they learned when they attended medical school, residency, etc.. and are not spending a lot of time reading the current findings. Science has known for a long time now, that low-fat products are not heart-healthy and do not help anyone lose weight or keep their weight stable. Yet that information is only now-- YEARS later-- starting to creep into the news (New York Times, LA Times, Huffington Post, NPR Broadcast, and a variety of tv news shows. Also, popular magazine publications.
I did not see anyone sharing scientific "facts." I challenged some of the commonly held beliefs that have now been proven to be wrong: that we need to eat grain, that we must eat 3 meals plus snacks, that breakfast is the most important meal of the day. Further, since we have been pushing low-fat products, eating a far higher amount of carbs for people with T2 Diabetes, eating whole grains, eating 3 meals + snacks, taking new (experimental) medications, and the belief that if we exercise enough we can lose weight-- as healthy practices, we have seen an INCREASE in obesity, not the opposite. What is commonly-believed is not working. More people are obese, and they are obese to a greater degree. T2 Diabetes is greatly increasing, and not decreasing.
I would not be any more willing than anyone here to take my word or anyone else's word for this, which is why I am urging people TO research this on their own.
The reason that I started this topic and have added additional messages is because I have learned a great deal that has not only helped me, but has educated many medical professionals whom I have encountered recently due to the fact that I have had two surgical procedures. It is not my opinion or my explanations that have captivated their attention so that they asked questions. It is my results: the significant positive changes in my health. I do not claim to have been cured of T2 Diabetes. I will, however, be stopping my diabetes medication (Metformin) as soon as I have healed somewhat from this 2nd hip replacement surgery. The dietary changes and the Intermittent Fasting have brought that about.
No one here or anywhere else is going to be foolish enough to adopt a new, strict diet, or take someone's word for things just because they are a fellow forum member, or because they claim to have had a positive individual experience. They are not going to immediately drop everything and start fasting. HOWEVER, I DO hope that others may recognize that if there is a possibility that they could benefit (reverse T2 Diabetes, or at least improve their health, instead of continuing to slide towards lesser health as many describe to be their situation, then they will do their research. I was terrified upon diagnosis because I saw how T2 Diabetes had ravaged members of my family and extended family (parents, 4 grandparents, aunts and uncles, cousins). I was so scared that I started researching as much and as fast as I could. I gradually learned the things that now have made a tremendous difference for me, and for all those who have adopted the same diet and fasting protocol AND ARE IMPROVING.
Jody, while you may not wish to investigate this because you are set on how you manage your T2 Diabetes, I will ask that you not attempt to prejudice others who might be helped. Trivializing what has been backed by lots of credible scientific evidence-- referring to it as a "fad" when you have no basis for that, just because it isn't what you believe/assume to be true-- is unfair to your fellow forum participants.

There are people who will rush to do what people suggest for no other reason than they are at their witts end with the disease. Just like many folks jump on the weight loss pill bandwagon because they promise to make you lose weight. It's easy to assume that as adults we'd do our own research, but some simply do not. It's important to remember (and I know you have stated this) that everyone is different. What works for one may not work for another. And you are right, everyone should research any new diet and should get the drs ok first.

I did a quick search and found the website you listed and also found a site that had several folks complaining about it too. There's always two sides to every thing and it just goes to prove that everyone's body is different. But if your doctor says it's ok to try then research it and go for it. You might be one of the people that it works on.

I won't comment again because I don't think I have anything else to say on the subject, and think this is a basic repeat of my last post.. I'll just end with God bless and may you continue to have these awesome results. I know I shout from the rooftops when I find something that works for me in different areas of my life.. :)