First off, David if you have a better drug, bring it on, but if you don't, don't come here and spew all that you just said.

Warfarin as bad as it is, is still the known, major, efffective anticoagulant accepted by the FDA and the medical community SINCE 1952.

Check your facts dude!!!

And blood clots kill, what is it, 300,000 a year? Not to mention deaths from heart attacks and strokes caused by atrial fibillation...hundreds of thousands of lives are saved by this drug every year.
Warfarin kills how many a year David? When it comes to a choice of kill my now or kill me later, I'll pick "later" every time.

Many drugs are "poison" to some degree; that's what makes them effective. Ask anyone who has had cancer.

Most drugs have side effects. You have to weigh this risk of the side effects against the immediate risk, which for many of us, is dropping dead from blood clots. I take the warfarin gladly.

I've been on this site for two years now and I love you all and feel a kinship with you, but lately, there has been so much whining about warfarin out here and it baffles me. Every day, people suffer worse fates in this world than taking warfarin. So, here's some perspective: we didn't die from a PE. Take the freakin' warfarin and feel grateful you have access to a drug that is a) inexpensive, b)readily available and c)super effective.

Or, don't take the warfarin. Everyone has free will.

Sorry for yellin', but seriously.

For those who want to wade thru an interesting but long study on this subject:

http://atvb.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/20/2/317

By the way, high doses of vitamin D can cause arterial calcification. So can getting old.

Yeah, I'm in a mood too, RMB.
The thing that bothers me the most is that there are no true viable alternatives to warfarin at this time; alternatives that are proven effective and that can be monitored and controlled for safety and purity. If there was, David, don't you think that we'd know about it by now? Don't you think Retired Navy, who's been on warfarin since the 1990's, and very much in tune with and active in thrombophilia awareness, or ANY of the other long-time warfarin users on this site would have said something by now?
So your post only serves to scare people for no good reason, or as a segue to pitch Nattokinase, or some vitamin combo snake-oil treatment. Either way, it's not constructive or appreciated.

As far as I know, Warfarin has helped save my life! A lot of things are poison to the body but that's modern science for you...probably the reason why people nowadays live til they're 70 and not 30 or 40 like back in the day. Pardon my intelligence, but really this is all common sense to me.

Warfarin to be intellectually honest has a lot of quite destructive side effects. I take warfarin too. I know and acknowledge it may save my life as well as lots of others. But, what effects it has on real body systems should be investigated and not ignored. There may be either some very good adjuvant therapies and/or new meds such as dabigatran or other oral meds that work on thrombin channels and have less side effects. I'd like to know why for instance more with the angiojet lysis vacuuming up the clot isn't being done more routinely. I just know our DVT/PE conditions are life threatening potentially but we don't have to lose sight of the real benefits to our health and quality of life from new, and better medications and treatments. I'm very affected negatively by warfarin side effects. I can't focus, I lose my word retrieval (neurotransmitter interference), I get extremely fatigued, I'm dragging, I get totally unmotivated, my eyesight is not right and on and on. I know that it's often a cascade effect when you start meds and down the line organ systems become compromised and serious new complications something life threatening develops. I want for all of us to not be so wick to blame our DVT lack of oxygen PE effects and dig deeper as to what real effects underlying on our organ systems, our biochem processes, etc. I don't trust pharmaceutical companies. The profits on warfarin are huge and we deserve better. Keep an open mind with respect better treatments. Blood coagualtion is epidemic I feel and as population ages and we get more sedentary lifestyles more people will need and deserve better alternatives. Warfarin, the INR instability, the blood draws, side effects, etc. We can do better. We need a "game "changer" in this DVT treatment and we are 60 years overdue. I demand it so why don't you?

David you are right! I want to be informed. We should be skeptical. I have been questioning everything ever since I learned about the swine flu vaccine containing squalene. I did learn about warfarin promoting artherosclerosis. I also wonder about the long term side effects to my brain as so many of us experience memory problems. Drug companies do hide bad side effects and our doctors are operating a business. I agree we need a solution but I also want the truth.

I'm not advocating abandoning your warfarin or promoting mattokinase, lumbrokinase (boluoke), gingko vit e garlic etc,to do the job of warfarin! But I'm advocating to really find out if warfarin is having an effect on ones ATP/mitochondria, kidney fiction, calcium deposits, etc. Just like statins, it's common knowledge and many med prof will tell you to add coq10 if you're on a statin because statins are known to block the synthesis of coq10 as it does cholesterol production both in the liver. So I'm advocating to follow a smart path and ask questions openly. According to some in med field they say dabigatran improved anticoag outcomes more than 35%. I'm not sure of this quote but whatever new med or treatments I would advocate it's science based and is well tested for good outcomes. And the FDA is so corrupt with drug companies actually running it with their prior staff. I don't put faith in them. Whether the europeonNICE org is any better I don't know. I'm not spewing fear just honest intellectually science based discussion.

Your post is irresponsible in that you make a blatantly frightening claim, yet give no studies to support it.
They are working on alternatives; so far nothing has been approved. We can only wait, and hope what they come up with won't be just as bad if not worse than what we already have. What else can we do, David? Scare the crap out of eachother in the meantime? I'm on warfarin for life, and I know that bleeding risks greatly increase with age, but my risk of clotting is greater. I have a definite interest in seeing a safer, effective treatment developed, so believe me, I'm not opposed to sincere questions. I AM opposed to freaking people out or suggesting unproven, even dangerous "alternatives" to doctor's orders. I am opposed to using half-truths to further a personal agenda or opinion or conspiracy theory or whatever you've got going on. So if you want a real discussion, let's start by answering a few questions:

How many people die every year from Warfarin induced arterial calcification?
How many people die every year from warfarin-induced bleeding?
How many people die every year from blood clots?
Until a side-effect-free, safe alternative is developed, what else can we do?

David you have made an interesting point. Before having my son I was very organic in the way I ate and consumed things (hardly a pill would touch my mouth, not even Tylenol.) Everytime I have to take something new perscribed by a doctor I am hesitant. I am not sure how I feel about anything as far as pharm companies, etc. go, for the most part I am wary yet somewhat indifferent, but what I am sure of is that I am severly thankful for the Warfarin and always will be. I hope beyond all hope that someone, somewhere is working on a better alternative. I have read up on the use of natural remedies for DVT, but just am hesitant and almost indifferent. I would love to see some more research that you have done. Any links, etc. would be fantastic. :)

You know, I come to this site to read other peoples experiences, to hear their thoughts and to feel like I am not alone. Dealing with this can feel like you are waiting to step on a land mine some days....for you to come on here and tell me (and everyone else) that we are putting poison into our bodies doesn't help us at all. In case you didn't notice, it's called Daily Strength, not Daily Scare, and people are here to support and listen to each other. I agree, what you said is inconsiderate and irresponsible to people who are already dealing with enough worries.
As for a lot of the symptoms you are talking about, I find daily exercise and positive thoughts help me greatly, and probably far more than obsessing so much about the pharmacutical companies and neurotransmitter interference, but that's just me being intellectually honest....

Why are we discouraging people from speaking their minds???? Yes, it really sucks that we do not have any alternatives right now. However, I deserve to know the bad with the good.

I can't tell you how many times as I take my Coumadin I am thinking I wonder if all I had to do instead is just take a clove of garlic a day. Maybe, there is a study out there that was surpressed. I asked my hematologist once questions about other options instead of Coumadin and basically his answers were well, no one has done a study of that and we don't have the answer. I have not gotten involved in looking into who funds the studies for warfarin, etc. However, there was an article in the paper the other day about the drug Baxtra and a doctor who warned about the amount of deaths due to the drug and how the information was surpressed. The article talked about how he was almost sorry he took on the big drug company as he is 66 and blowing through his savings and can't afford to fight Pfizer anymore. This stuff does happen.

Look what is happening with the flu shot. My husband came home from work the other day and says they are giving flu shots at his office and he is thinking of getting one. I said for the regular flu?? He said yes. It got me thinking WHY? Why is the regular flu shot being pushed so hard? It is the swine flu that is dominant over the regular flu virus and I read that almost all flu cases now are of swine flu.

Also, look at what is happening with the media reporting the swine flu deaths and how we are getting the same phrase underlying conditions. Of course there are privacy laws, but obviously someone thinks the american public can not handle the truth and we are not getting the full picture.

Anyway, sorry for veering off subject but I think that is why I am reacting so strongly this thread...
Pam

Pam thankyou for what you said. I really appreciate that. From what I was told garlic concentrated allicin capsules interfere with the inr level but my dr says fresh garlic is ok. Warfarin is toxic to a body. The drug companies don't want you to know this or talk about it. I and others here can feel the toxicity everyday. There may be better anticoag solutions but I don't know what they are. Never believe the FDA or drug companies. Trust your own feelings. Share them and together we can make it to better health. Don't abandon your current meds till science and sound double blind studies give is a safer less toxic alternative. Pam warfarin is natural it comes naturally from plants such as yellow cover, sweet woodruff, etc. But in the concentrated form it is toxic. It just is. Too many people I hear about have multiple system failures and die. I read about alot of people who suffered on this drug only to meet their doom which the FDA and drug co and drs would have you believe it was from the DVT or PE. I'm VERY suspicious. The data isn't uniform nor convincing and their is little to none about the meds contributing in any manner to a downward cascade of further health problems. Thanks pam and others for being a healthy skeptic. Sure it seems to prevent new clots but at what price and I keep coming across fatal prices I'm sorry but I seem to read alot about people that lost loved ones "mysteriosly" during warfain treatment.

Disagreeing with a post is not discouraging people to speak their minds. It's a forum so you can say what you want. When someone posts "Warfarin causes calcification of veins arteries and valves. It is poison to the body" with no other information to offer, that is a scare tactic and it prompts people to respond.

People in this community, especially new people, are already freaked out by what has happened to them, so to tell them that the meds they are taking are going to lead to all kinds of serious health problems is a scare tactic.

You have no idea what everyone's history is, their specific sitation etc and just making a blanket statement that warfarin is horrific is irresponsible.

Again, if you want to try a natural alternative, go ahead. I think it's ill advised, but geez, no one is holding a gun to anyone's head. It seems like you want permission from this commmunity, some kind of validation for it. It isn't going to happen, so accept that and then do what you want to do.

Living in constant fear about the meds I take, feeling worried and paranoid about it all the time, is sad to me and not how I choose to live. The only thing that I fear is dropping dead from another PE, so I take the meds that I know have the best chance of preventing that. As I've said before, when I whine about warfarin, I remind myself that I never want my husband to ever again have to witness me gasping for air while EMTs work on me. I know that image will stay with me forever and it will stay with him too. Imagine what that must have been like for him, to feel so helpless and to think his wife is going to die right in front of him on the living room floor.

I owe it to myself and to the people I love to do what I know is proven to likely prevent that from happening again.