COPD & Emphysema Support Group
COPD is a progressive disease characterized by airflow obstruction or limitation. Emphysema is characterized by loss of elasticity of the lung tissue, destruction of structures supporting the alveoli and of capillaries feeding the alveoli. Both have symptoms that include shortness of breath, among other respiratory troubles. If you are a COPD or Emphysema sufferer, join...
deleted_user
How many of you are a co2 retainer? You get so out of breath that you think if you up the oxygen you will feel better. Bad idea. too much oxygen for a co2 retainer can literally kill you. In these people like myself less is better.
Most people are unaware that ventilation (removing CO2 from the body) drives our breathing. Most of us do not breathe to add oxygen. There are some people (called CO2 retainers) whose breathing mechanism is driven by oxygen but more on them later. The pulse oximeter tells a person the level of oxygen but does not measure carbon dioxide levels. Oxygen can be added to improve oxyhemglobin but compromised lungs do not efficiently remove CO2. This means that during physical activity a person with unhealthy lungs is likely to experience a feeling of shortness of breath. This happens because the feeling is being generated by excess CO2 in the body. This is why we breathe harder and faster during exercise. The body creates more CO2 during exercise than at rest. This can confuse oxygen users who throw on their pulse oximeter only to read normal oxygen levels. Some may even turn up the oxygen volume, which for most isnt dangerous. For the CO2 retainer turning up the oxygen volume can be deadly, though.
The CO2 retainers body has adapted to excess CO2 to the point that excess CO2 no longer drives their breathing. Their breathing becomes driven by oxygen levels. It is vital that these people do not add excess oxygen because it causes acidosis. Although unproven, the acidosis has lead to the belief that hyperoximia can suppress their breathing and in extreme cases they can cease breathing. When a person feels short of breath, their initial reaction is usually to want to turn up the oxygen volume. Known CO2 retainers should never turn their oxygen up beyond the prescribed amount even though shortness of breath in a CO2 retainer can be from low oxygen. For that matter, no oxygen user should exceed their prescription oxygen volume.
The pulse oximeter can be a valuable tool to spot check oxygen levels. Oxygen users can be comfortable knowing their oxyhemoglobin is between 90-94%. And if they experience shortness of breath while their oxygen levels are normal, they should be aware that it is probably from increased CO2.
Since pulse oximeters measure oxyhemoglobin in the blood of the skin, conditions that limit the pefusion of blood to the extremities will effect the accuracy of readings. Generally, if the pulse reading is accurate the oxygen measurement will be accurate. If you are questioning the reading, count your pulse rate and see if it matches the oximeter reading. If you have poor perfusion in your fingers (your fingers are always cold) warm the finger prior to taking a reading. You can hold your finger in your other hand, place it in warm water or wrap a warm towel around it. If that doesnt help, you could consider an ear probe but that will significantly increase the cost of the pulse oximeter.
Most people are unaware that ventilation (removing CO2 from the body) drives our breathing. Most of us do not breathe to add oxygen. There are some people (called CO2 retainers) whose breathing mechanism is driven by oxygen but more on them later. The pulse oximeter tells a person the level of oxygen but does not measure carbon dioxide levels. Oxygen can be added to improve oxyhemglobin but compromised lungs do not efficiently remove CO2. This means that during physical activity a person with unhealthy lungs is likely to experience a feeling of shortness of breath. This happens because the feeling is being generated by excess CO2 in the body. This is why we breathe harder and faster during exercise. The body creates more CO2 during exercise than at rest. This can confuse oxygen users who throw on their pulse oximeter only to read normal oxygen levels. Some may even turn up the oxygen volume, which for most isnt dangerous. For the CO2 retainer turning up the oxygen volume can be deadly, though.
The CO2 retainers body has adapted to excess CO2 to the point that excess CO2 no longer drives their breathing. Their breathing becomes driven by oxygen levels. It is vital that these people do not add excess oxygen because it causes acidosis. Although unproven, the acidosis has lead to the belief that hyperoximia can suppress their breathing and in extreme cases they can cease breathing. When a person feels short of breath, their initial reaction is usually to want to turn up the oxygen volume. Known CO2 retainers should never turn their oxygen up beyond the prescribed amount even though shortness of breath in a CO2 retainer can be from low oxygen. For that matter, no oxygen user should exceed their prescription oxygen volume.
The pulse oximeter can be a valuable tool to spot check oxygen levels. Oxygen users can be comfortable knowing their oxyhemoglobin is between 90-94%. And if they experience shortness of breath while their oxygen levels are normal, they should be aware that it is probably from increased CO2.
Since pulse oximeters measure oxyhemoglobin in the blood of the skin, conditions that limit the pefusion of blood to the extremities will effect the accuracy of readings. Generally, if the pulse reading is accurate the oxygen measurement will be accurate. If you are questioning the reading, count your pulse rate and see if it matches the oximeter reading. If you have poor perfusion in your fingers (your fingers are always cold) warm the finger prior to taking a reading. You can hold your finger in your other hand, place it in warm water or wrap a warm towel around it. If that doesnt help, you could consider an ear probe but that will significantly increase the cost of the pulse oximeter.
Posts You May Be Interested In
-
My 6mo twin DD's are EBF and just started rice cereal on the first. Everything has been going fine except this morning one of them had a diaper rash (lots of redness around her anus). I read this as one of the signs of an allergy. BUT I did just buy a different brand diaper yesterday (which they have used randomly before w/no issues). Do you think its the cereal or the diaper? Im ready to start...
I don't think I'm a retainer.
great post...just a bit long! i have a pea brain...and the lack of oxy doesnt' help! but thanks for the info
margaret
Thanks,
Hugs to all,
Holly
so I upped my oxygen from 2 to 4 thinking the more the better. I don't rember anything after that. I was rushed to the hospital and put on a ventilator for 3 days. I don't remember anything about it until I woke up in the hospital. The doctor told my husband I could have died from it. This new pulmonary doctor said anytime I am just sitting and doing nothing to lower it to 1 if possible or at least to 1& a 1/2. I am trying but I am more up doing than I am down so most of the time it stays at 2.
It has been brought to my attention that the thinking about co2 retainer's and oxygen has changed,
You may want to read this, but read carefully. I think its important.
The Death of the Hypoxic Drive Theory
http://home.pacbell.net/whitnack/The_Death_of_the_Hypoxic_Drive_Theory.htm
Love to all,
Holly
I am only posting what is found online.
Have a great day,
Holly
This is my everyday life and I do so wish that for all of those medical wizards that attend conferences, give talks and up their visibility would just give us some 1.2.3. answers.
It seems that everyone is an expert but until I get better treatments for COPD (not those meant for asthma), I will just do what I can and listen and evaluate all info.
Actually, I have probably gotten more useful information from the people in the COPD forums than I have from the medical community. Except they can't write scripts so I will beat a path to the doctors office to see what is up.
margaret
I am a retainer. Thought using more oxygen would help me?
The most important and best tool I have is EXHALING double
the time I inhale. It takes practice and concentration; but it
is worth it. I still panic sometimes and forget. I feel like I can
not get enough air, so I hyperventilate. I am sucking in air; too
much; too fast------when I need to be blowing out the bad air.
What the medical profession in short is saying is that,
turning up your oxygen is not going to kill you if your are a retainer.
The co2 you retained is what gets you, and turning up your oxygen does not drive up the co2 retention and make you worse as was once thought.
http://www.learnmoresavelives.com/blog/copd-and-myth-hypoxic-drive-mediated-sudden-hyperoxic-death-oh-my?quicktabs_1=0
http://www.wellsphere.com/copd-emphysema-article/june-29-2008-close-to-fifty-years-is-a-long-time-for-drive-to-breathe-39-myth-39-to-be-perpetuated/15866
Nellie is a great poster and she posted what she thought was true, I am sure that is what she was told.
Her post opened a door to finding new information.
That's what we are looking for, the truth about our illness and ways we can be helped.
We are always looking for new information aren't we?
I surely didnt know anything about this until the research showed its self, and I felt obligated to share it.
As I said before, I would not change anything about my treatment with out speaking to my doctor first.
Maybe if your a retainer you could print out the information and ask your doctor about it.
I hope this helps,
Hugs to all of you,
Holly
This point was proven by the above contradictory posting.
Who are we to believe? It seems that we just need to wait until the next article by a professional comes out to state that the previous was wrong.
Testing and studies are "hard copies" that you can put more faith in but one should not really be too sure about their info being better than the other persons' or more accurate.
How do we get correct information? We don't, we just have to be as proactive as possible and hope we make the right call.
I wanted Nellie to know that what she posted was thought to be good sound information and I knew she posted what she thought was correct.
I dont want this new information to do anything to effect her future posting, she is so good at finding information and bring it to us.
It is hard to know what to think some times and scary too especially when and it seems that old school thinking in the medical profession hangs on tight sometimes as it seems in this case.
It scares me to think the medical profession would with hold oxygen from people who need it because old school thinking says the co2 retainers get worse as a result of giving oxygen.
We keep looking and reading and we all hope the scientist and researchers and doctors find the truth and the best possible treatment for us all.
I think sometimes like in this case its not a bad idea to print out the best of the information and present it our own doctors who dont know and educate them our salves, or at least get them to research them selves, they are thinkers.
Have a wonderful day in every way,
Hugs to all,
Holly
as for the newest testing results....i'm always interested in "who" did the testing...and how many people did they test? (remember how so many doctors chose coke over pepsi in a taste test...when the coke was chilled and pepsi wasnt? or that type of thing).
i'm just thinking that the reason the oxygen is a prescription, is so we dont' turn it up and down. right?
margaret
Remember there are "Oxygen Bars" in the more upscale, young communities (Maybe for a quick sobering up). I also see mini oxygen systems advertised in mags and on the internet that do not require an RX.
Wish that was the only reason I need 02 !!!!
hugs,
Nellie