I understand unconditional love as loving without expectation. It has helped me in the past to ask myself these questions when it comes to my motives for giving at my expense:

- Do you feel hurt or angry when you do not receive anything back from your giving?

- Does your giving make you feel energized or more exhausted and more drained?

- Does your giving make you feel happy and joyous or does it result in you feeling deprived, unhappy or depressed?

- Does your giving make you stronger or weaker? Do have better health or do you get sick more often from your kind of giving?

- Does your form of giving bring fear and worry or peace and joy?

- Does your giving make you feel empty or full?

- Do you usually worry in your relationship, or do you trust them?

- Do you try to control or let it be?

- Are you attached to outcomes or can you accept that all things will work together for the ultimate good?

- Does your form of giving help you to feel emotionally stronger and more secure or does it make you feel more at the whim of your partner's mood and behaviors?

Hope this helps you find some clarity. Hugs to you.

Outstanding post Twilight... worth putting on a word document and taping it to my mirror!!!

Mag, I think I have written about this on another thread or maybe in my journal but it probably bears repeating.

I had this issue come up with my dad.. I wanted to show my dad love but our relationship was not good and he had virtually pulled himself out of my life. It always very painful to have interactions with him because he did not reciprocate at all anything remoting resembling care or concern.

So because I had so much emotion tied into this.. I had to have a real simple way to tell if my motives were pure or not.. and I define pure motives as love with no strings attached.

What my higher power told me to do was ask myself a question.. the question was "will it hurt, bother, or make me angry if my dad does not reciprocate my actions of love".. in the instances where the answer was "yes" then I did not do anything I left it alone.. In the instances where the answer was "no" then I went and did what was in my heart to do.

I have to admit it was about 50% y vs n at first but gradually over time the no's increased to about 75%.. and I became quite comfortable doing things for my dad.. calling him and checking on him.. etc.

I could tell also with him there was more of a relaxing with him.. when I was around.

I whole heartedly am going to employ Twilight's suggestions in the future and plan to print them out.. they are wonderful but my little test for me was easy for me to use at the time.

Mag, I forgot to add that I think you questioning your motives is so mature.. and growth promoting.. that is part of recovery to check our hearts.. which can be very deceitful.

That codependency is a very cunning disease that has it's roots in the self.. so easy to feed that selfish part of us and lie to ourselves.. I have to be careful also.

This thread has pricked my conscience and I am promising myself that I am going to do a little introspection and moral inventory on this topic in the next few days.

I agree! That gives people a lot to think about.

Ladies, I am enjoying this discussion so much. It prompted me to go back and review the Recovery Patterns of Codependence and honestly read each statement and reflect on where I stand today. I ask myself if I love myself unconditionally today as a unique "Child of God". Some days are better than others. There's also a great article written by Harry Browne, dated 12/25/1966, entitled "No one owes you anything".

Thanks for your comments, ladies! I guess I have been analyzing the various relationships/friendships I have. I've been trying to peel away the layers of codependency and figure out what's at the core. In other words, what is it about that person(s) that makes me want to be with them? What are my intentions? Are they rooted in codependency? Or are they rooted in something "real" that just got messed up with codependent behaviors?

Donna, thanks for mentioning the Harry Browne article! I looked it up online and it helped clarify my thoughts. I'm going to post it on a separate post, and put it in my journal, so I can keep it and others can see it.

To be accepted for who we are, no matter the differences, if any.
We cannot mold ourselves into what we think that person desires the most.

I thought my capacity for a healthy relationship felt like an illness.

But I met somebody finally, after two years of healing from a toxic relationship. We are so much alike, its shocking. We accept each other and I have to say I know what love is.
It's not a co-dependency at all. She does indeed give allot, she gives everything. I feel very lucky but yet I remain here because doing so gives me a purpose. Helping others, or at least trying has been a positive thing in my life and I needed it though I know I can't always help.

I don't believe we can look at the love we all want as a mental illness. If that were true we would never find peace and happiness. I know Melanie and I will have a tough road together, we accept it but at least we can do that together. She really keeps me grounded, my life is chaotic at times, and there isn't a single thing I would not share with her.
I find it hard to believe it's very surreal. I know this might be off topic but I had to share what I've found at least.
Love cannot be one sided, if it isn't shared and given, then it is indeed a bad thing.

Blessed.
W.

God, then parents (well, until we kids grew out of our "cutesy" phase and became a burden anyway), true friends who don't want anything from you and you don't want anything from them except enjoy each other's company.

Any other kind of love is ALWAYS, ALWAYS conditional.

I am going to add something else to this...

What is the difference between conditions and expectations?? are they different.. can you love someone unconditionally but still have expectations of them?

Yes... that makes sense, Pops. You can love someone, but have expectations. That's why the article that LadyDB suggested is great... because you can have expectations, but in the end no one owes you anything.

Popsicletoes, when it comes to expectations I think it helps to think of relationships in terms of not only love but also commitment. Codependency is based on a mix of conditional love and unconditional commitment. In a healthy adult relationship its more the opposite way round, that is love is unconditional, while there are, as there should be, clearly stated conditions related to maintaining a high level of commitment.

I think a good example is, once when my oldest son was very young, after being disciplined in time out, his father told him, "you can re-join the family now"....I was still quite young and naive, and that felt bad to hear him say that, but I did not realize how hurtful that really was at the time....that was CONDITIONAL love...only being accepted as part of the family, if you behave a certain way.....my son was expected to behave, but always accepted (by me) as a family member. I think that has to do with always regarding, respecting, and/or loving the person, but not their unhealthy, destructive behavior.

The word "expectations" smacks of "conditions".

Choose to use the word "hopes".

I have HOPES that this person will be and do this and this and this...

I don't know if I believe in unconditional love. I have in the past and I forgave or overlooked too much behavior that was not ok. I would say I love and accept all people. However the people I CHOOSE to have in my life are healthy and respectful of my boundaries. So while I do love unconditionally, sometimes I choose not to have certain people in my life or in my thoughts.

This is a tough one for me.

I do believe in "unconditional love", because as a codependent, I gave that in my last relationship. I overlooked the abuse I received (emotional, not physical). There was a continuous storyline playing in my head for five years:

"When she starts to heal, and feel better about herself, our love for each other and our relationship will be perfect."

Here's what happened when she started to heal and feel better about herself - she didn't need me (and my own baggage) in her life anymore, and she unceremoniously dumped me.

And now, I'm on my own, trying to pick up the pieces of my own life that I paid so little attention to for five years, because I was so busy trying to manage her reactions and life. On reflection (alone, and with my therapist) I can see a similar thread running through most of my past relationships. They were all unhealthy, including a long term marriage.

I still believe in unconditional love, but I've started to learn where the boundaries are when I'm that deep into a relationship. Will I make the same mistakes again? Possibly. Probably. That is, unless I'm able to put a stake in the ground right from the beginning, and say to myself, 'this is a line I will not cross'.

My own biggest concern is that "love goggles" will blur that line once again. Time will tell.