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What is your opinion on the Michael Jackson Doctor
thaliajen
I'm out of town working and my RSD kept me from an afternoon in the sun as I'm feeling the humidity in my foot and leg. I knew that a spell in the sun would keep me from doing my best in my writing, plus I'm STILL suffering from a sinus infection that has now withstood 2 different antibiotics. It was mid-afternoon and I decided to let Cancun go on w/o me, and I'd do the responsible thing and rest & take my meds.
I had been caught up in the info about Michael Jackson's doctor's trial on the planes and I watched the tv shows explaining and dissecting Conrad Murray's trial. I was literally transfixed by the amount of coverage Direct TV's channels had and I spent both flights hearing all the info and the arguments. I heard the sad tape of Michael, VERY obviously drugged, and watched as the doctor cried when it was mentioned that he and MJ were friends.
I watched as much as I could find here, but CNN was out and there's no Headline news at this hotel, so most of the coverage I've gleaned from today is from BBC! But it made me wonder, what do you guys think of this situation?
I see a very charismatic, lonely man with lots of money using that fame and money to get what he thought he needed, and that was Diprovan, a medication used in surgery! I know the pain of insomnia, have since the age of 8! I didn't have PAIN at age 8, I just had insomnia. And it went on for years, and continues to this day. Does it happen every night? No. But it does disrupt my life and DH & son's life. It's a terrible disorder and I wish it didn't exist, especially when it is worse b/c of the RSD. But...I could NOT see having an IV (I'm trying to take my needle phobia out of this question b/c obviously MJ didn't have that) and a doctor IN MY HOME giving me a drug that is not used for insomnia but for surgery. Even if I HAD the fame and money, I would want to TRUST my doctor! MJ knew that this doc was giving him medication never used for insomnia. A nurse friend of MJ's had warned him against it. MJ knew drugs well, according to her, and was seeking Diprovan for years.
I tried to see it through the doc's eyes and it seems as if he was TRYING to get MJ off the Diprovan and onto lesser sedatives. He wasn't an anesthesia doc, and he was totally taken by MJ's fame. Watching, you can see the guy and know that he was wrong and he knows it. Hindsight is 20/20, especially after a superstar dies under your care. MJ allowed this man into his home where his children lived, with his many medications. They say MJ was on multiple meds, including opiates. This doc probably had no idea what was all in MJ's system at any given time. Drug addicts are sneaky and they lie, and the doc HAD to know that MJ was an addict. Hell, it was well covered that he'd been in rehab for pain meds.
The odd thing is, while I in NO way support Dr. Murray's actions, nor MJ's, I can see both sides. Murray was caught up in the fame and money, that much is clear. MJ had trouble sleeping, whether it was insomnia or not. He had been introduced to diprovan during his MANY surgeries and knew it gave him a good rest. I'm guessing that by this time, MJ had gone through all the sedatives & tranquilizers that exist, but wanted the Diprovan b/c it gave him a deep sleep. He then used his money, friendship, and charisma to bind Murray to him.
I try to imagine what it would be like to have a doctor at my beck and call and I can't! I'd be terrified that he would do just as this doctor did and go against his better instincts. And in the end, whether you think this is a crime or bad judgement, this is IMO what happened. Murray went against his training b/c MJ talked him into it. They had used this drug before, and Murray was supposedly taking him off (or trying to) the drug.
I wonder, what all was in MJ's system when that Diprovan was administered? Had MJ already ingested some of the drug? Other drugs? Probably. I doubt he was "clean". And what was in the doc's mind when he left MJ alone? The drug is used with a doctor in attendance. Murray had requested resuscitation equipment for MJ's upcoming tour.
I also wonder if MJ did this only when he was touring or rehearsing? I mean, he was supposedly a good father, so what does a kid do when he/she has a bad dream but can't wake Daddy up b/c he's got an IV and is OUT. Did this happen b/c of the tour? Not if we believe the nurse friend who said MJ asked her for Diprovan years before.
And while there are a million ways to look at it, and I heartily disapprove of what both the doctor and MJ did (yes, I think MJ carries some of the blame, too) it still comes down to the fact that no court can bring MJ back. The man was an adult, even if he acted like a child, and he knew what drugs can do. To my knowledge he had no disease like RSD or Fibro or other CP causes.
When I think about how CAREFUL I am with my meds- always writing down what I took and at what time, never taking more than prescribed even if I'm in terrible pain, and never taking my meds w/o checking the Med Log, as I call it, to make sure I NEVER accidentally take 1 pill too many, I have to fault him for taking meds when he didn't need them. There are appropriate sedatives, etc., for insomnia. What he did was so far beyond the reality of life that I have to give him some of the blame. And yes, a part of me is angry. Angry not ONLY that a talented man, a father, a son, a brother, is gone, but that he was taking meds when he didn't NEED them!
We all know what a pain in the butt it is to maintain a life while on pain meds. I can list a dozen things today alone that made me roll my eyes and mutter under my breath. Traveling with pain meds into another country is difficult, but then I've had RSD for almost 15 years so I'm used to it. So why did MJ ADD all this trouble to his life? He had 3 gorgeous kids, a nice family, fame, money...is it never enough? And THAT is where I come to the conclusion that he was an addict and that is why I can't understand. If he had some disease that caused him to medically NEED those meds, it would be different. But no matter what they say, I will always think that MJ contributed to his death.
Does that leave Murray off the hook? Hell no! Docs like this are dangerous. His access to medications was like putting a kid in a candy store. I can tell he was conflicted about what he did, but when did that start? I can't believe he thought it was OKAY to do what he did! But that doesn't take away what he did. He administered the Diprovan, and left his patient alone! He tried to perform CPR on the bed! No spine board under MJ. He lied to paramedics about what he'd given MJ. To protect MJ? I don't think so. He was protecting himself.
This trial is heating up with the Jacksons showing up daily, and fans going nuts outside. They want to blame it all on the doctor. I suppose we could not look at ALL the evidence and say, yep, it was Dr.M- he gave the medication so he killed MJ. I think this man's life is already ruined, and the 3 years he faces is a joke if that is supposed to be a punishment for manslaughter or murder. But looking at him, I think he is already punished. Not that he doesn't need more punishment. I just believe that he knows what he did. He has to live with this forever. Rightly so.
I've written a dissertation on this and I've barely seen much of the evidence. But it really fascinates me. And then I wonder. If this diprovan were the CURE to what ails you, how far would you or I go to get it? B/c in MJ's eyes, I would BET that he thought Diprovan was exactly what he NEEDED to live. The difference is, he could live without it! He had no CP, nor need for THAT drug. And what would you or I do if we had a way to "help" a man we admired, whose money we wanted, and who said he was our friend.
It's a helluva web! And there's also this: while we scramble to find docs to help us with CP that takes over our LIVES, he had but to snap his fingers and he had an IV, drugs and a doctor to WATCH him sleep! Whatever happened, we won't know the whole truth. But is sure did get fascinating all of a sudden!
Forgive my ridiculously long post. But I REALLY wonder, what do you all think of this case? Was MJ in any way to blame for his own death? And why do rich people, rich drug ADDICTS, have such access when we have to stand on our heads to get simple treatment? And in the end, even though I feel for MJ and his family, I DO think his addiction brought about his death. And while the doc has every reason to be VERY sorry and SHOULD be punished, do you wonder if he figured out that if he didn't do it, someone else would? Perhaps someone who wouldn't treat his "friend" as well as he would?
Interesting when you look at it this way. At this point, I don't even know what to hope for! What do YOU think?
I had been caught up in the info about Michael Jackson's doctor's trial on the planes and I watched the tv shows explaining and dissecting Conrad Murray's trial. I was literally transfixed by the amount of coverage Direct TV's channels had and I spent both flights hearing all the info and the arguments. I heard the sad tape of Michael, VERY obviously drugged, and watched as the doctor cried when it was mentioned that he and MJ were friends.
I watched as much as I could find here, but CNN was out and there's no Headline news at this hotel, so most of the coverage I've gleaned from today is from BBC! But it made me wonder, what do you guys think of this situation?
I see a very charismatic, lonely man with lots of money using that fame and money to get what he thought he needed, and that was Diprovan, a medication used in surgery! I know the pain of insomnia, have since the age of 8! I didn't have PAIN at age 8, I just had insomnia. And it went on for years, and continues to this day. Does it happen every night? No. But it does disrupt my life and DH & son's life. It's a terrible disorder and I wish it didn't exist, especially when it is worse b/c of the RSD. But...I could NOT see having an IV (I'm trying to take my needle phobia out of this question b/c obviously MJ didn't have that) and a doctor IN MY HOME giving me a drug that is not used for insomnia but for surgery. Even if I HAD the fame and money, I would want to TRUST my doctor! MJ knew that this doc was giving him medication never used for insomnia. A nurse friend of MJ's had warned him against it. MJ knew drugs well, according to her, and was seeking Diprovan for years.
I tried to see it through the doc's eyes and it seems as if he was TRYING to get MJ off the Diprovan and onto lesser sedatives. He wasn't an anesthesia doc, and he was totally taken by MJ's fame. Watching, you can see the guy and know that he was wrong and he knows it. Hindsight is 20/20, especially after a superstar dies under your care. MJ allowed this man into his home where his children lived, with his many medications. They say MJ was on multiple meds, including opiates. This doc probably had no idea what was all in MJ's system at any given time. Drug addicts are sneaky and they lie, and the doc HAD to know that MJ was an addict. Hell, it was well covered that he'd been in rehab for pain meds.
The odd thing is, while I in NO way support Dr. Murray's actions, nor MJ's, I can see both sides. Murray was caught up in the fame and money, that much is clear. MJ had trouble sleeping, whether it was insomnia or not. He had been introduced to diprovan during his MANY surgeries and knew it gave him a good rest. I'm guessing that by this time, MJ had gone through all the sedatives & tranquilizers that exist, but wanted the Diprovan b/c it gave him a deep sleep. He then used his money, friendship, and charisma to bind Murray to him.
I try to imagine what it would be like to have a doctor at my beck and call and I can't! I'd be terrified that he would do just as this doctor did and go against his better instincts. And in the end, whether you think this is a crime or bad judgement, this is IMO what happened. Murray went against his training b/c MJ talked him into it. They had used this drug before, and Murray was supposedly taking him off (or trying to) the drug.
I wonder, what all was in MJ's system when that Diprovan was administered? Had MJ already ingested some of the drug? Other drugs? Probably. I doubt he was "clean". And what was in the doc's mind when he left MJ alone? The drug is used with a doctor in attendance. Murray had requested resuscitation equipment for MJ's upcoming tour.
I also wonder if MJ did this only when he was touring or rehearsing? I mean, he was supposedly a good father, so what does a kid do when he/she has a bad dream but can't wake Daddy up b/c he's got an IV and is OUT. Did this happen b/c of the tour? Not if we believe the nurse friend who said MJ asked her for Diprovan years before.
And while there are a million ways to look at it, and I heartily disapprove of what both the doctor and MJ did (yes, I think MJ carries some of the blame, too) it still comes down to the fact that no court can bring MJ back. The man was an adult, even if he acted like a child, and he knew what drugs can do. To my knowledge he had no disease like RSD or Fibro or other CP causes.
When I think about how CAREFUL I am with my meds- always writing down what I took and at what time, never taking more than prescribed even if I'm in terrible pain, and never taking my meds w/o checking the Med Log, as I call it, to make sure I NEVER accidentally take 1 pill too many, I have to fault him for taking meds when he didn't need them. There are appropriate sedatives, etc., for insomnia. What he did was so far beyond the reality of life that I have to give him some of the blame. And yes, a part of me is angry. Angry not ONLY that a talented man, a father, a son, a brother, is gone, but that he was taking meds when he didn't NEED them!
We all know what a pain in the butt it is to maintain a life while on pain meds. I can list a dozen things today alone that made me roll my eyes and mutter under my breath. Traveling with pain meds into another country is difficult, but then I've had RSD for almost 15 years so I'm used to it. So why did MJ ADD all this trouble to his life? He had 3 gorgeous kids, a nice family, fame, money...is it never enough? And THAT is where I come to the conclusion that he was an addict and that is why I can't understand. If he had some disease that caused him to medically NEED those meds, it would be different. But no matter what they say, I will always think that MJ contributed to his death.
Does that leave Murray off the hook? Hell no! Docs like this are dangerous. His access to medications was like putting a kid in a candy store. I can tell he was conflicted about what he did, but when did that start? I can't believe he thought it was OKAY to do what he did! But that doesn't take away what he did. He administered the Diprovan, and left his patient alone! He tried to perform CPR on the bed! No spine board under MJ. He lied to paramedics about what he'd given MJ. To protect MJ? I don't think so. He was protecting himself.
This trial is heating up with the Jacksons showing up daily, and fans going nuts outside. They want to blame it all on the doctor. I suppose we could not look at ALL the evidence and say, yep, it was Dr.M- he gave the medication so he killed MJ. I think this man's life is already ruined, and the 3 years he faces is a joke if that is supposed to be a punishment for manslaughter or murder. But looking at him, I think he is already punished. Not that he doesn't need more punishment. I just believe that he knows what he did. He has to live with this forever. Rightly so.
I've written a dissertation on this and I've barely seen much of the evidence. But it really fascinates me. And then I wonder. If this diprovan were the CURE to what ails you, how far would you or I go to get it? B/c in MJ's eyes, I would BET that he thought Diprovan was exactly what he NEEDED to live. The difference is, he could live without it! He had no CP, nor need for THAT drug. And what would you or I do if we had a way to "help" a man we admired, whose money we wanted, and who said he was our friend.
It's a helluva web! And there's also this: while we scramble to find docs to help us with CP that takes over our LIVES, he had but to snap his fingers and he had an IV, drugs and a doctor to WATCH him sleep! Whatever happened, we won't know the whole truth. But is sure did get fascinating all of a sudden!
Forgive my ridiculously long post. But I REALLY wonder, what do you all think of this case? Was MJ in any way to blame for his own death? And why do rich people, rich drug ADDICTS, have such access when we have to stand on our heads to get simple treatment? And in the end, even though I feel for MJ and his family, I DO think his addiction brought about his death. And while the doc has every reason to be VERY sorry and SHOULD be punished, do you wonder if he figured out that if he didn't do it, someone else would? Perhaps someone who wouldn't treat his "friend" as well as he would?
Interesting when you look at it this way. At this point, I don't even know what to hope for! What do YOU think?
I imagine he was in pain all the time.
BUt, who ever cam eout of surgery feeling "rested". One needs to dream/
Now as to his death and 'who' caused it. Like you I am pissed that yet another wonderfully talented person died well before their time - especially with kids! I think MJ and the Doctor should share blame. And like was said, I doubt we'll ever know what really happened in that room, but who knows I am sure the full autopsy and pathology results will be in public (court testimony) soon.
Because he was rich and famous, he probably had very few who would tell him no, and he knew it! I read somewhere that he rewarded his closest supporters very well....Many don't want to give up such good treatment and salaries...
Sad, very sad....
I think they are both to blame. Michael Jackson was a person who used his money to get whatever he wanted. The ultimate addict who doesn't have to worry about the cost or finding a source...there will always be someone who will do what you want for enough money. But the doctor broke the law and all standards of medical care. What he did was completely unethical. I'm sure there are several agencies that want a piece of him but are waiting to see if the prosecutor can send him to jail.
I hope that they convict him to send a message to the many doctors who hand out medication like it is candy. I know that will upset some people here but I have seen first hand what prescription drug addiction can do to a person.
Micheal Jackson has to share in what took place. To say he should not would be saying he did not know right from wrong.
With each death of a celeb our care was/is threatened. I know Narcotic Therapy became an issue when MJ died. I am sick of paying the price for others bad choices.
Of course I think its sad when anyone looses their life yet with each one, especially MJs we are at risk.
This doctor has to be held accountable but to what degree?
Sammy
Plus this drug was not to be used outside of the hospital so that by itself should of not been used and I know some say he was weaning him down because so many other doctors gave it to him but he should of been doing this in some sort of medical rehab with all the bells and whistles and then if he needed to go pee or take a phone call a nurse could of came in to watch.
I'm speaking out of my realm of self experience when it comes to addiction to pain medicine. I'm just expressing my opinion because I think it is an important issue. It seems like we hear about people falling victim to overdose whether intentional or not on such a regular basis. Yet we still have so many people that need pain management.....
May you all find some relief from yours today:-)
There are also people who have been on a med and need help coming off of it. Either their body is going through physical withdrawal or their brains are telling them that they need it. This is the same person who's brain tells them that nothing will work for them...mental addiction.
I know they have studies that show addiction runs in families. But it's not 100% and I don't think they have figured out why this happens.
MJ had enough money to keep the "Yes" people in his life & the ones who would say "NO" out; including his own family.
I've heard that was his biggest problem to have addiction plus the power to keep the right people out of his life that would've intervened.
Supposedly his kids were not allowed in his bedroom at night when he was taking meds be it for pain or insomnia. Dr Drew said Insomnia was a symptom; not a disorder or disease which I agree with.
I believe MJ had been getting this Diprovan aka Propafol before Dr Murray came into the pic & probably not just in a surgical setting to need the amount the doctor ordered.
Due to the amounts the doctor ordered, I also feel in no way was this doctor trying to wean him off of this as MJ had the power to tell this doctor he was replaceable unfortunately.
Dr Murray was not Board Certified in Cardiology or Anesthesia having NO business administering these drugs to MJ & to not have the needed equipment to resuscitate his breathing or heart, this doctor is guilty of Gross Negligence along with agreeing to do what MJ requested.
I know MJ played a role in all of this too. I seriously doubt he self injected this General Anesthesia as he would've passed out before able to finish the injection; however if the theory is he tried to, he would've had a needle sticking in his arm that also had to be removed by Dr Murray who had left the room for up to 45mins; not the 2mins he stated; as proved by his own cell phone records.
It has also been stated that MJ was receiving and taking up to 10 Xanax a day before this doctor ever came into his life so yes, MJ does have some blame of his own death through being an addict, hiring a doctor that would do what he wanted/give him what he wanted however, it was ultimately the doctor's responsibility to say NO to him & not accept the offer or the money promised to serve an addict & to lie to the AEG Corp people telling them that MJ's health was just fine.
It's sad to know that money can buy a doctor & meds for an addict along with keeping the ones who truly loved him that would've done something out. We will never know the whole story & to hear his voice on the doctor's recording brought tears to my eyes as that alone proved this doctor knew MJ had serious problems yet did nothing to stop it or get him the help he needed.
In saying that, I also believe we all have "our time to die" bc of my faith. I am still saddened to know that MJ died in this manner & feel for his family & children always.
I've had RSD for over 12yrs. If anything I've told my doctor to lower the amounts of meds I'm on. I know I too am fearful & responsible with my meds.
I was angered as on Dr Drew last night he had a PM doctor on talking about how patients come in telling him what they want. There are responsible CP patients & at times I am angered that side is rarely if ever spoken of.
It's sad to know what people w/ money will do for even legal drugs when they become addicts & I also believe in the genetic make up of an addict.
I think if MJ could speak now, he'd not want this trial to even happen. He had such a big heart & would blame himself; not the doctor; plus he wouldn't want his family or children to go through this. I do feel the doctor is guilty & should be charged that way since there is a trial.
The thing I've hated most is to hear that voice recording of MJ sounding so messed up & most of all to see his lifeless body on TV. That shouldn't have been allowed on TV; we aren't in the jury or courtroom & shouldn't be able to see that bc it's just too sad.
RIP Michael Jackson
Just my two cents' worth.
Thanks for the opportunity to share my view on this.
Truth is nobody knows the fine details surrounding his death. Only MJ & God.