Oops..
Meant to add..
If you're under a Pain Management contract..
Check with your DR.
You're hate to lose PM from it.

JC this is not a slam toward you, just my observation...

The main thing with promoting the type of "why the hell not use it" thinking is that people start to apply it to many things...alcohol can numb you, cocaine can have a big limiting effect on pain, heroine, PCP,Crystal Meth, they can all make you forget your in pain for awhile.

Here in the states it can be gotten in a couple different ways, dried leaves, powder and tea are some of the easier ways to take it.

Since it's not regulated by any authorities at this point nobody bothers to list the side effects because they don't have to. Hallucinations are a large side effect of Katrom and it works on the same Opioid Receptor Agonist as Morphine, so teens like it because they can get high.

It's not something that any Dr.'s are prescribing or would even be able to as its never been put through the FDA's research and vetting paces.

Until the FDA begins researching it for stabilization, efficacy and safety. Then and only then would it be available for marketing. Unfortunately that probably won't happen until more people die from this junk.

This is not some safe little placebo powder that kids can pick up at the local convenience store....it's a toxic, could be deadly substance that kids can pick up rather easily. Kids are already dieing because of it, because the "buzz" doesn't last long enough and they take more...

FYI, if your on a Pain Contract this would most likely Void that Contract and you'd be stuck looking for a new PM Doc., because there is no telling how that stuff shows up in your bloodwork or how long it stays there.

One of the Katrom purchasing websites even offers a substance to get over a "Katrom" hangover.......does really sound to anyone like a valid pain management product??

I tally agree with everything you said OldCP. In fact I did some research on Kratom's some time ago and there is an information sheet by the FDA regarding Kratom and it's possible side effects.
When I said in Jeremy's thread that posting these alleged miracle cures for pain or avoiding withdrawal to be very careful, it is because of the very reasons you stated.
I asked my pm's office about kratom, it's safety and it's impact on pain management and was told that if someone tests positive for it, they will loose their pm.

http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/drug_chem_info/kratom.pdf

Well, of course kids could possibly be dieing from this stuff (although I do not see any "proof of that fact)! Can someone please post a link to the current verifiable deaths that are linked to Kratom? If kids are over-consuming Kratom to get high, they are not using it properly. If this substance is used properly 1-2 teaspoons at a time a couple of times a day, there are no serious risks to worry about. As with any substance, if you abuse it, bad things will happen. If you consume too much alcohol you can die, and as we all know, alcohol is 100 percent legal.

Again, I want to see a link with proof that kids are dying from Kratom? I saw that other link where some grieving mother is trying to blame her son's suicide on Kratom. Why don't people take personal responsibility for their own actions. If you commit suicide, don't blame it on a substance. If you eat 20 norco, or all of your monthly allotment of pain medication and die, don't blame it on your doctor. Take some personal responsibility. American's want to blame everything and everyone else for their actions. I tried this stuff and it took all of my norco withdrawals away. I could have switched over to Kratom for 2 weeks and then completely stopped norco without any withdrawals. Again, you have to use substances for their intended purpose. If you are drinking 4 ounces of this stuff to get a buzz off of it, then you are abusing it. The government can't regulate stupid. It doesn't matter how many laws they have on different types of substances, people will always abuse them and die. Take some responsibility for your own children parents, don't blame a plant because your kids made poor life decisions.

Once again, where is the link to the adverse effects of Kratom? You guys have obviously done extensive research on this drug. Where are the links? Every drug is bad. Look at the Methadone they just started me on. It is far more dangerous than Kratom and I am legally allowed to take it. If I end up having a respiratory problem because of this medication, should I be able to blame my doctor or pharmacist for giving it to me? I knew the risks before I started taking Methadone. I know that you can die from taking Methadone even if you are taking it exactly as your doctor has prescribed it. Like I said, you can't regulate stupid, and you can't blame another person because you put a dangerous substance in your body.

If pain patients consume the entire months worth of their medication in one day and die, who's fault is it? Also, I don't trust the DEA to post unbiased information about any substance. I remember all of those refer madness films they used to come out with. I don't see anyone going mad from using reefer. The DEA always lies about everything. The fact that Kratom is very low on the DEA's hit list tells me that they don't have enough evidence to prove that this substance is dangerous. They would have been all over it like the current crack down on prescription pain medication. They're too busy going after chronic pain patients to worry about some juvenile delinquents chugging down Kratom. Hell, you can die from drinking too much water. Should the DEA go after bottled water manufacturers? You can't regulate stupid.

Jeremy..
" I could have switched over to Kratom for two weeks and then completely stopped Norco without any withdrawals"...

Why didn't you?

..I have yet to hear anyone willingly forgo prescribed opiates for only Kratom.
So.. where's the " success" in it?

Jancam, I could have done so. The withdrawals were completely gone. The only problem is that my pain remained. I can get off of all of my prescription pain medication like I have done two times before, but my pain is still there and it interferes with my sleep. I can continue to use the Kratom to supplement my use of norco once I figure out whether or not the Methadone is going to work better than the norco. If I go back to the Kratom, I will take 2 teaspoons of it when I first wake up, then 1 norco 4 hours after that, and then 2 more teaspoons of the Kratom before bed. It all depends on what kind of a day I'm having pain wise.

I never claimed that the Kratom can totally replace your prescription pain medication for those of us who are actually in chronic pain. It is just a supplement to use in conjunction with your current medication plan that will help you limit the amount of prescription pain medication that you consume, or it can use used as a very effective aid to assist you if you are ever placed in a situation where you need to detox from your prescription pain medication. For me it worked. I had to stretch 120 norco for over a two month period waiting to see my current pain management doctor. I was able to do so with the aid of Kratom. On the good days I used 1 or no norco. On the higher pain days I was able to use 2 or three in conjunction with the Kratom.

Now grant you, I still had to take it easy physically. The Kratom isn't going to give you enough pain relief to get out there and do physical or manual labor - or in my case sit in a normal computer chair for more than two hours a day without really bad pain. It's just another tool to bust out when you need it. I will continue to use it whenever I need to do a medication taper, or if I am ever cut off of my prescription pain medication. I will never take more than 6 ounces at a time. I always take it responsibly. I also buy it from a reputable supplier.

Now there have been 9 possible deaths linked to Kratom that has been enhanced or cut with a chemical compound that is similar to Tramadol. O-desmethyl is similar to the active ingredient in Tramadol and it can reduce the seizure threshold in those who consume it. Apparently this was the case with the nine deaths that are referred to in the following article I will post at the end of this thread. You have to get your Kratom from a trusted supplier. Also, the nine deaths are associated with people taking way too much of this stuff to get high with it. If you are just taking a reasonable amount of this stuff, you will not have any problems.

Here is the link to the supposed 9 deaths linked to bad Kratom:

http://jat.oxfordjournals.org/content/35/4/242.long

I'm not endorsing this substance in any way. I'm just throwing it out there as an option for people to try if they need to try it for whatever reason. I don't think anyone on this site has ever used their prescription medication in an unsafe manner. You are all responsible people when it comes to taking your medications as prescribed. I doubt anyone on here is going to have a problem with using Kratom if they were to ever try it.

We all take some pretty strong prescription pain medication, we all know the risks that are associated with that, using any substance that treats a medical condition is exactly the same. It will always carry some sort of risk. The deciding factor that we use when we take medications is "do the benefits outweigh the risks!" I did a lot of online research before I tried Kratom. I could not find anything about people dieing from consuming it. The only people who were having problems were those who were not using it properly. Like I said in my first response to this thread "you can't regulate stupid people!" That is my two cents on this topic. I'm not trying to step on anyone toes here, I'm just throwing my opinion out there.

Here is the link that explains what O-desmethy is:

http://www.cachesyn.com/compound.php?cat_num=CSTT0611

The only think you can't control is what the Kratom is cut with. When it is laced with Tramadol it can cause problems. Most reputable suppliers do not sell anything other than the pure product.

You can use that "it's not regulated by the DEA/FDA so we have no idea what is in Kratom!" But then again, I can use that same argument when I take my Potassium Gluconate pills from Nature Valley. The FDA does not regulate supplements. They do not guarantee that I will even be getting Potassium Gluconate in my pillsm because they are not regulated by the FDA. So thousands of other people who are taking their various daily supplements are in the exact same boat as those of us who have been taking Kratom. With that I will bow out of this debate. Hugs!

@jeremy:

have you told your new Pain Management Dr. that you take the Katron "supplement" with your narcotic meds? I'm curious how he feels about you being on it while your on a Pain Contract?

CP

My pain contract does not mention anything about being on any supplements. I don't see how I can get in trouble for taking a supplement. The only thing the contract mentions is Marijuana, illicit drugs, and obtaining narcotic prescriptions from doctors other than my pain management doctor. Again I don't see where the problem is. You must have a different pain contract than the one I have.

As I said Kratom saved me. Those young people who died....how much alcohol did they consume??? Did they add cocaine or another substance in it or with it??? I take 1 tsp 3 times a day. All I take now is my thyroid medicine and kratom. After I take my k in the morning, it takes away my pain and fatigue. My neighbor commented that he's seen me outside more this spring more than he has the past years.

The FDA don't want it bc it loses $$ for Dr.s & pharmacies and pharmaceutical companies, and the FDA wants their money hungry hands on it and the price will soar.

Bath salts are worse ! So is methadone, oxycodone, etc. People in pain don't seek a HIGH!!!! When I went off my meds, I had a full large bottle, probably 100 to 150 pills left bc I never took more than to take the edge off. Those 9 people who died, do you think they would have taken them or had them left over??

That is why Canada has cheap meds. The US govt, politions, senators, lobbyists all have their hands and $$ and push things through to benefit themselves and load their net worth.

As I said earlier in my post, what about the side effects of our prescription drugs? ? Can cause suicide in minors, can cause cancer, take too much alcohol and narcotics/ sedative can make you stop breathing. Take Heath Ledger... he couldn't sleep and kept taking more stuff to sleep so he could film (I have been there...you get desperate for sleep n keep adding meds). Whitney Houston....mixing prescription drugs and alcohol. I agree with whyN, there is no way in hell those people who died only took kratom.

One Rheumatologist had me so medicated a tornado or train coild have gone through my bedroom and I would have never heard it. My pain mgmt Dr. also had me so medicated that I kept falling and would sleep 16 hous a day or more. Now I am alert n have done things I haven't in 10 years. My husband tried a little and it took away the pain in his knees. He only takes it every once in awhile.

Kratom CANNOT be any harder to withdrawal from than what I went through 2 months ago. If another poster had not told me about it I would have killed myself for sure. She knows she saved my life and that is no exaggeration.

It angers me so much oh, kratom killed them. Uh no, what they took with it, how much they took, how much alcohol, etc. Whether they were depressed or bipolar and didn't know it and were self medicating, drug interactions, and the big one...THEY WANTED TO GET HIGH. We don't.

I have tried everything over the last 10 years (and been on every presc. drug there is) and kratom has the least side effects and works on my fatigue and the pain.

Morphine, metadone, fentanl patch, percocet, oxys, which do you trust??? I have not taken those necessarily, but really? I'll take kratom anyday over those. Fatigue! Something that works on cement legs and more mentally alert. All the pm drugs had me in a bigger fog than fibro fog.

One thought jan.. did you try different strains?? I take the Red Malay and 1 tsp gives me relief and energy within 10 minutes on an empty stomach. Just ordered, but next time may try the Bali Red.

I reviewed the 9cases of those who died from K and in all 9 cases, anxiety meds and various antidepressants were taken, and sometimes several types of both of those. But to have the final summary say that the K is the cause of the deaths, well, that is just wrong. They only hint that the other drugs are taken, but the K is the drug to blame. Sorry, I don't believe that for one second.

It is my belief, that the dea and fda and oh lest not forget Pharma, would like to see K become illegal, and after all, they cannot profit if we aren't under their spell of addiction causing drugs and then forever their patient.

One only has to watch the movie "Doctored" and then have a epiphany of how medicine and doctors and pharma and even insurance companies are owned by "doctors". It's on amazon Prime, and probably a rental if you don't have Prime, Netflix doesn't have it. There are snippets of the movie on Youtube though. Then after a bit of searching, I just found the entire film "Doctored" on YT.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYx_6tzPhuE

If the link doesn't work here, then PM me and I will give it again.

I'm not sorry that I would rather take the K over a pharmaceutical drug any day. Just as I would rather see a Naturopath than a "real" MD. But I can't do that due to my insurance. I have cut my pain medicine to less than half of the prescribed dose and I have hopes that one day I won't be taking it at all. I will take the K, and I will do so safely without the need to feel "high" like those who have died. We all know that abusing the drugs when a person wishes to be "high" that those are the people who do die.

Then again, some people are desperate for pain relief or to have a decent night of sleep and a decent life. For people like Heath Ledger and Michael Jackson, they have doctors who overprescribe very strong potent drugs and this is a well known phenomenon too. Fortunately, most doctors who WE see do not overprescribe, but they do under prescribe for chronic pain quite a bit. Most chronic pain patients are still in pain and many can't even find a doctor who will treat them. This is everywhere in the US and Canada.

Is it any wonder that people are turning to whatever they can find to stop having to live with chronic pain? Is it any wonder that people are turning to heroin for pain?

I would take the K any day over heroin or other narcotics. I am not a person who even considers getting "high" as I want to be busy and active and enjoying my life. Unfortunately, marijuana doesn't help me because it does make me high and I don't like being high.