Tigg there are people here on this board who refuse to take opiates because of the fear of what damage they will do to their bodies and/or fear of addiction... that is the choice that I am talking about. Personally I choose to take them, rather than have pain so severe I spend most of the day in tears... but I pay a price for the pain relief they bring me, being that they are slowly destroying my bowels from the constipation they cause... and I now have to constantly worry about incontinence. In the end it's all a balancing act between how much pain we each can live with... and the effects that can come from trying to relieve the pain.

I don't think anyone was talking about suicide... the OP was talking about whether unrelieved pain can shorten someones life and/or how much pain would it take to cause dealth without any other contributing factors.

I can believe that. Before I was treated for my pain I was in ER several times with my vitals all over the place.

When my PCP gave me my first script for a strong pain medication I took one look & said I'm not taking that. Well his response was you will or keep going to ER with your vitals out of control.

That can't be allowed to occur for any great length of time or damage will start. So yes chronic uncontrolled pain is dangerous.

I'm sure with my conditions & the medications my life span will be shortened. By how long I have no clue.
I do know that Ive accepted quality over quantity,

I want to find some enjoyment & peace in this life time.
I want to enjoy my children, no matter the age, make some good memories, play with my grandchildren. Help others when I can.

I don't know when my time will come but I pray its when my children are settled & secure.

Ive seen a lot with my loved ones passing. I block it out as for me its to much. I pray my girls do not go through what Ive gone through. I want them to remember the good.

I'm more fearful for those I love to be honest.
There is no way of knowing what the future holds. When this new way of life for me began I had to learn to take it one day at a time. I don't think about my future to much as it would only cause me worry & fear.

Ive made my wishes known with my husband & sister, & now that my girls are older I should go over it with them at some point. They don't like to think or talk about it.

I'm not so afraid of death, I am afraid of going before Ive seen my loved ones settled.
I'm sorry if this post offends, I think its a important topic & I don't think it was intended to hurt or offend. The intent is whats important I would think,
God bless, Sammy

Ive had a quick read of the thread so please forgive me if I repeat something that has already been said and I can see how upsetting this can be for some people.

But Im glad this topic has brought up because its something I think about and Im glad I dont feel mad feeling like the only one. I often think 'how can I live in this pain for long'. Many have you have been through horrific things, bless ya, and others have had miracles. Here I am talking about my own personal thoughts, not that of family/friends etc...just how I feel about cp. I have no obvious things wrong apart from chronic pain. Its so bad it can make me faint. I know many of you have levels of pain like this and worse. But I often think...how will I cope with this for ever? Im exhausted from pain. Im tired. As many are. How can I be like this til Im 30, 40, 50? Will I see that age? I refuse to give up. But...I dont understand how I will live to be old. How long can someone be in pain?

I grasp on to the idea of my mental ability...the positive force of my brain to get me through for as long as possible. I hope you understand what I am trying to say...I dont really know how to put it in words. Can pain kill? I dont know...maybe...but you could maybe be hit by a bus tomorrow. Maybe its best to not dwell on what could be....just what is. If it comes to the point of death from pain...Ill cross that bridge when I come to it. For now...keep on pushing I guess.

Im kinda thinking aloud here...and Im sorry if I have upset anyone. This is my own personal view on my own personal pain and today...it has helped me to think about it.

Jan...I hope this makes some sort of sense to you. I hope you are ok and whatever hard choices you are facing I hope things go well for you. It is a deep topic with many different viewpoints...but if it helps to talk, Im here.

Hugs xxx

kate,

I can't see how old you are. Trust me by the time you hit the 60 and beyond decades, constant pain has serious effects.

It wears the body out. I went to one doctor and casually said, I feel normal except that I wake at 3am every morning. Don't know why, not worried just wake up and that is it for sleeping.
he told me that is chemical depression. Had me fill out a form about sleep, pain, worries, took 30 minutes. That was when a doctor first talked to me about being in pain and how it will damage the body slow but sure.

I know I had a miracle. But it was too late for my body to heal all the way. After a certain age it just can't do it so good anymore.

I have an aunt who did not take her meds. She died of heart failure under the heat blanket. My uncle thinks she took too much meds but the autopsy shows nothing in her system at all. She would turn white as a sheet and sit down with an "episode".
Pain does kill.

I don't mean to prostelitize. But if God created us to have these ills, he also gave us powerful plants to relieve suffering. These are plants like any other.

I rememeber the anger, sad, bargain, all those stages coming up again and again when mom died. It takes many years to get over a loss. The people who got really upset are stuck needing to work thru more grief. It has to be walked THRU.
A sib refuses anger and is still stuck after mom's death. Trust me that one is angry at everything and everyone yet constantly says, "I don't get angry. It is a USELESS emotion."
Denial gets us nowhere.

I am still glad that Jancam brought this up. I worry and feel all alone with this. Being alone is really really bad. We are social animals.

I personally have wondered why we've never talked about this. I understand that some people will be offended by this. I had to exercise my mom's DNR and Alive Hospice made her last 8 days as comfortable as possible for her and for me.

I've had a DNR and Will for myself since 2005. I think this post is very informative. Sorry that it offended a few good people. But for me personally I appreciated all the opinions.

GTK thank you for posting about intractable pain.

I too think this is a totally appropriate topic and I have often thought about bringing it up myself. I was diagnosed with stage 3 melanoma and my family refused to discuss it with me. I had surgery and as far as they were concerned that was it. I went a year with PTSD thinking I could die and no one would talk with me about it.

The disease I have is progrssive. It is destroying my organs and I at some point will probably be faced with needing a lung transplant. I have already decided I am not going to do that.The average life expectancy after that is only a year and a half. Plus I have been ill off and on since I was 12 and on since I was 30. I am turning 40 in a few months and I am tired. I do not have a big recovery in me. I have had many surgeries and now anytime I have to go to the hospital I go through extreme anxiety. I am on a ton of meds and have refused a ton more. I have cut down most to prn. I often have a bad response to many meds given in the hospital and I just cannot take a pain and anxiety filled death.

My family has used Hospice and they are wonderful so God willing whenever the time comes whether it's a few years or 40, we will use them again and everything will be peaceful.

This is not an easy thing to think about, but not talking about it can be harmful as well.

Thank God!!!

I thought that I was the only one so tired that a DX of cancer would be a signal for the end times between me and the big guy upstairs unless it is totally and easily curable.

I can really jnderstand how you are tired. Most people bounce back after surgery. When I had the hernia, it was three months and that was laproscopic. I can't do any more major surgeries.

It is good to know that I am not alone. It feels so lonely that I want to scream some times.

I keep asking why CP;ers never get the chance to say "enough" like cancer patients. I know it might be better tomorrow. But what happens when tommor does not come tomorrow or the next day or the next or three months or three years. When do I get to rest?

How do we deal if we are not allowed to talk about how this feels?

Exactly! Like you it takes me months to recover from surgery and I have another kidney stone to big to pass and will probably be needing surgery to take care of it. I have had so many lithotripsies that they are worried about my kidneys. I pray the stone stays where it's at and doesn't cause complications for a very long time but I know what that will do to me. I have started having certain surgeries done with a local rather than general anesthesia because of the length it takes me to bounse back from it. And to be honest I don't think I bounce back at all anymore, it just accumulates. So SunnyBunn I am with you.

I agree that this is a very important topic for CPers. Some of us, if not many, are also suffering from underlying diseases in addition to CP. It is not only the pain itself that is wearing our bodies out but also the causes of the pain and the repercussions of the pain. If this does not make this a valuable topic for us, I don't know what does. It is something I think about often being faced with multiple conditions that have drastically affected the quality of my life and my relationships. It is about living and dying with dignity and also about, for me, how I want to be remembered both now in my struggle and later in my death.

At some point back, I asked to dnr this thread.
I am glad some of you opted to ignore that, because of iously it's been on your minds as well.

It was never my intent on this post or any other to hurt any one in any way. I signed the release to have my husband taken off life support many years ago. This is not a subject that I would have broached lightly.

Sis'es' last post pretty much summed it up. I am searching for dignity.

I don't care to discuss details of my conditions. Suffice to say that my last doc appointment brought home the reality that my conditions and meds are going to (not might) at some point end this struggle for me.

I have opted for quality over quantity. As sis said, I want to be remembered as someone with dignity and grace. Not what I've become.

So, I will take more meds to improve the quality of my life, though they will surely shorten it on some unkowable time table.

I wanted this thread to stop . I'm grateful you didn't let it...........jc

This is an open forum. Everyone has the right to post what they want to post without feeling like they may send a member into a tailspin because they didn't know ( how in the world COULD they know) what MAY or MAY NOT be happening in another members life. That is a lot of responsibility to put on another person who is just asking a question on a forum.

What makes more sense... look at the topic and easily pass it by because you don't think it may be helpful to you in a productive way ( because you know its not always about *you* and how hard your own life is) you SIMPLY move on... because it might help someone else... even though it doesn't help you.

Or ... read over the entire thread (even though you KNOW it will be upsetting to you) and then put the responsibility and blame on the POSTER because well heck... they should have *known* not to post what they did - so- its THEIR fault ...for what YOU chose to read.

Its REALLY REALLY easy ... don't don't don't... CLICK ON... the discussion topic!

I truthfully did understand alot about this post was it about dieing from the results of CP or is it about ending someone else's life who may not want to go on. It seems we had a couple different reply's going on here.

Some things are just sensitive topics when talked about in a forum politics, the right to life(abortion) religion. Sure we can start any of these topics but alot of times we dont because we try to respect others and dont want to cause arguments or bring up sensitive things.

tamale--- you said in your post...

"JC. I feel you need to think long and hard about what you post. I don't really care about how honest you are."

"If I thought it was about death and the hard decisions I was forced to make. I would have joined a diffrent board. I don't mean to harsh but I will mostly have nightmares for weeks."

Think long and hard about what she posts? I don't understand where you are coming form with that... ... it sounds like you are scolding a child...

Should she feel responsible for the nightmares that you may have?

I mean if thats how you feel then thats how you feel... but really... (asking this gently) doesn't that seem a little unreasonable to put apon another person...?