Chronic Pain Support Group

Physicians and professionalsdefine pain as chronic if it lasts longer than three to six months and is persistent. It's distinct from acute pain that is a direct result of injury or trauma. This support group is dedicated to those suffering from chronic pain. Discuss treatments that have worked for you, find advice for your specific experience, and find support. You're not...

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Brain & Nervous System
/ Chronic Pain Support Group

Can untreated chronic pain kill you?

Jman
Jman

I know we've had discussions about this very topic ad noseum in here. We all know that chronic pain can cause elevated blood pressure, loss of appetite, and sleep disturbances. This can happen when chronic pain is being treated with opiates, and also when it is not being treated at all. I know that high blood dpressure can lead to heart attack and stroke. No one can argue with that. I also know that some people cannot handle/tolerate living with uncontroled chronic pain. I recently tried to fight my chronic pain again (this is something that I do often, as I get tired of taking pain meds). And this time I had a pain flare so bad, I started thinking about how my life would be if my doctor was to discontinue my pain management with opiates.


I can honestly tell you guys that I don't think I would be able to live my life without pain meds. I'm not saying I would do anything to hurt myself, but it would be a really tough road to walk without meds. I thank God every day that I have a wonderful and caring pain management doctor; and even though I'm not out there living it up like I used to before chronic pain came into my life, I'm definitely living a better quaity of life becuse of opiates. I'm on a very low amount of pain medication (3-4 Norco 10's per day, and 5 mgs of Methadone per day as well) but they are a life saver to me. I probably need a higher dose of Methadone to better control my pain, but I currently manage with lower levels of pain medication by limiting my daily activity levlels. My leg still hurts, and the pain still flares with opiates, but I'm not sitting here punching the couch because the pain is unrelenting.


To those of you who are not able to get access to proper pain management, I really commend you for being strong. I don't think I can ever be strong enough to go through this unmedicated. I pray for all of you. I pray that you can all find a compassionate and caring pain management doctor. I also pray that those of you "us" who are currently receiving proper treatment for our chronic pain (even if they are lowering our daily dose of meds) will continue to adjust and receive the level of care that we're currently receiving. I never had to be dependent on doctors, or medications four years ago. I feel like I'm at the mercy of my doctors and the current political climate in order to have my chronic pain managed. It's kind of hard to surrender to this fact; but I know that untreated chronic pain would probably do a lot of damage to me and my family. To all of you who are just beginning your battle with chronic pain. Hang in there! You're not alone! Hugs to everyone!

billwfriend
billwfriend
good post here jeremy....welcome back...not seen you in while...hugs
Jman
Jman
Thanks Bill. I've been going through some psychological challenges lately and kind of shut myself off from the world.
OlderCPer
OlderCPer
Honestly, Pain won't kill you. You'd be surprised at what your body can adjust to if it has to. Pain won't kill you, having said that, side effects from keeping pain controlled such as regulating Blood Pressure, Heart Rate, Central Nervous System Regulation, Breathing, etc. can become dangerously out of control if pain is uncontrolled and they're combined with illnesses that might make them deadly. But it doesn't mean that if your pain gets to a certain level or number it will kill you....

I started Pain Management in 1987, and back then there was no at home narcotic use for Pain Management. If you had surgery you were lucky to get a few Vicodin after you left the hospital. For Pain Management we were given NSAIDS, which were still mainly Prescription back then, Tylenol, Physical Therapy for certain illnesses, cold/heat Therapy and TENS units. That was pretty much it. The only way you got narcotics outside of a hospital was if you had a terminal illness like HIV or Cancer.

We had severe pain. My pain was worse at times over those younger years than it's been post multiple operations over these later years, and I didn't die. People didn't die regularly from Chronic Pain, they just dealt with it in different ways. But I sure as heck didn't have availability to the same Morphine and Oxycodone cocktail that I have now, and I never would have thought to ask for it. If you got really bad and had to go to the ER, Tylenol 3 with Codeine was the narcotic pain med you got, and you got like 10 or 15....not 90 or 120 like they do now.

Chronic Pain patients think they'll die if they don't get Pain Meds because the pain is so bad...but realistically, treating Chronic Pain with large amounts of at home Narcotic meds has only been the standard of treatment for the last 10-15 yrs.
Jman
Jman
That is messed up OCP. You are tough to have lived through all of that. I'm not as tough as I thought I was. It must have been barbaric back then. I have a friend who just had surgery and her doc told her that Tylenol was good enough for her post-op pain. I hope we never go back to those days. I was dealing with my pain before I went to the hospital. I had a few pills left over from when I had a pulled tooth, and I used to drink Nyquil in order to go to sleep at night. I have grown to become dependent on having access to pain meds now. I don't know if I personally could ever go back to not having my pain controlled. That's just me though. Others might be much tougher.
MillaSofia
MillaSofia
It's killing me. It affects every system in the body, and left untreated, makes a portion of the brain shrink. With stressors and brain changes can cause heart attacks, stroke....also depends on where the pain is, what the cause is. May not be lethal. Get treatment.
ItsJustMe2012
ItsJustMe2012
In order for chronic pain to be looked on as something that can kill you if left untreated or undertreated, it would have to be listed as COD on a death certificate. If a person takes their own life, they are the ones that ended their life, according to their death certificate. Personally, I think when someone says if they can't get their pain meds they don't want to live it makes chronic pain patients look unstable.


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YvetteK
YvetteK
I don't know about long term pain management, but when I broke my back, I only had morphine for the first 5 days post op. That was it. I was moved into the rehab hospital, and my doctor told me he never gives any of his patients opioid pain meds. There were 5 different doctors looking after the spinal cord injury patients in that hospital, and my doctor was the ONLY one who didn't use pain killers. Every day, physical therapists iced my back about 5 times a day. That was my pain control. I think there are still doctors out there that don't believe in the use of opioids. They'd rather have you chomp on a bit to get through it.
Jman
Jman
I didn't say that chronic pain patients would want to harm themselves if they didn't get their meds, but you can't ignore the ones who do harm themselves because they have no access to pain medication. You can't just sweep the ugly side of chronic pain under the rug. It is always going to be there, even if the CDC and other government agencies do not document those cases. I can see some doctors not wanting to get their patients hooked on painkillers, but when you have chronic pain, it's just like taking your blood pressure medication, or other regular medication that keeps you healthy. I had a script for 30 Vicodin when I had a tooth pulled. I think I used about 10 of the pills along with the prescription strength Motrin they prescribed me. I had the twenty left over pills sitting in my medicine cabinet for 2 years before I used them after I injured my leg. Not everyone who takes a few pills is going to turn into a junkie. But chronic pain can indeed make you unstable. Pain can affect your thinking and judgment. It can cause a person to do crazy things. People in pain get desperate. That is a fact. I hope everyone of you gets the pain management you deserve. Hugs.
Jman
Jman
Proper medication can make a world of difference for many diseases and disabilities. I have been taking Atorvastatin for 2 years now. I just started taking Insulin 3 months ago, and I've been taking Metformin for 1 year. My cholesterol is normal, my high liver enzymes from fatty liver are now completely normal. My bilirubin is not normal (it used to be double the normal limit) which means that my gallbladder is working better now that my cholesterol and blood sugar have come back into the normal range. My A1C is 5.4. A normal person's A1C is under 5.7. Sure, it is all because of the medications I take, but my body is now working properly. The same thing happens to blood pressure, and other issues that chronic pain can bring. Properly treated chronic pain can allow a person to resume a near to normal life in some cases. Why is taking opiates any different from taking medicine for diabetes or high cholesterol? They are proven to be effective for a lot of people.
Jman
Jman
I meant to say that my bilirubin is now normal as well.
OlderCPer
OlderCPer
So, the topic of harming oneself to deal with unending pain, is one I'm not going to touch, I doubt my views would go over well.

As for being tough back in the day...no, no tougher than now. It's about perception and expectation. We didn't expect to walk in a Dr.'s office and come out with loads of pills....when you don't expect something you don't miss it. You learn other ways to manage the pain. It's a pretty easy concept actually. Now days people expect to be given narcotics if they have pain, and most of them have a predisposed mentality that they can't handle the pain without them.

Maybe I just look at things differently.....I was never supposed to walk. I wore bulky metal braces on my legs from 10 months to 4 years old. I took my first steps when I was about 3 and a half years old...way behind the normal growth range, but against a Dr.'s prediction that I never would. Maybe its just because pain has always been a part of my life in 1 way or another and it had to be managed. I managed to lead a pretty normal life until 17 went my legs gave out and life got pretty limited.

Managing pain wasn't about being tough, it was just about doing what we knew at the time how to do. We didn't have the option of pain meds, so we didn't miss them. I'll never forget the first time I had a Dr. prescribe me narcotics to take at home, everyday, whenver I needed them....I thought I'd won the lottery, it was an amazing feeling...but I never stopped using all of the other modalities that I'd been taught over the years, and that allowed me to keep my narcotic level pretty low compared to most people with my medical history. I honestly think that's a big problem with Pain Management now days, people get meds and that's it, they think their good and they don't use any other therapies and when you do that your tolerance goes up and you end up needing more and more drugs... It ticks people off when Dr.s suggest PT or weight loss or other types of meds....but these things are important too.

I'll shut up now.
Jman
Jman
I would do any other non-opiate therapy out there but the spinal cord stimulator. I would even consider amputation of my jacked up leg. Seriously lol. I just could never get used to living with a piece of electronics in my body. But when I tried to just get lidocaine patches and lyrica approved by my insurance company, they send me a letter to ask my pain management doctor for more narcotics, or muscle relaxers. They stated that I had not tried enough pills for them to pay for other modalities of treatment. I will see if I can find that letter and scan a copy of it up on here. The insurance companies (even Medicaid) do not want to fork over the big bucks it takes to put people through physical rehabilitation, or to pay for non-narcotic medications. At least that is what I've personally seen in my own case.
Jman
Jman
Plus the fact that my pain management doctor flat out told me that there is nothing he can do for me because I have a blood clotting disorder and he would not go near me with a needle, or any other form of treatment. The pain doctor that was originally pushing the SCS on me wrote down that the patient states they have no depression or blood disorders. He ignored my blood clotting issues. I know of one other person who has been refused surgery because they are at a high rick for blood clots and no specialists will go near them.
Jman
Jman
I'm getting off topic a little bit here. I just wanted to say that it isn't always cut and dry for every case of chronic pain. We all have our different medical conditions and causes of chronic pain. Mines happens to be circulation related and not a back issue, not a knee issue, not a nerve issue, just a leg vain with scar tissue and limited blood flow. All of my chronic pain originates from that one area behind my knee and radiates throughout the rest of my leg. It's pretty frustrating knowing that a couple of inches of scarred up veins are destroying my life and my peace of mind. But I bet a lot of you feel the exact same way about your cause of chronic pain. It is all so frustrating. No human should have to live with chronic pain. And with that, I will leave things as they are. Hugs to everyone!
OlderCPer
OlderCPer
Jer, you know I was not talking about you, wasn't talking about anyone in general, just my opinion in general. I know you try to do what you can, we talk, I get it. You don't have to prove anything. Unfortunately with some insurance companies it can be a continuous circle of stupidity and the patient suffers.

Believe me there were times I asked about having my left leg amputated, but they wouldn't do it, instead they just rebuilt parts of it. AS for the Lidocaine patches, you know they sell them at the Pharmacies/Walmart now? All of the IcyHot and Bengay and other brands have Lidocaine in them now, there not as strong, but they have them, have you tried them yet?
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