NCEC, your perspective is valuable for certain. Each of our situations are different. The bulk of us, or likely all of us here, do love our children sincerely. Most of us have tried repeatedly to communicate in a normal, respectful way, but have been rebuffed.

It is sad that you don't desire a relationship with your father. He possibly simply does not know how to communicate with you effectively, but is likely willing to learn.

Mothers in particular do "pine" for a relationship with their children and grandchildren. It is how we are wired, and what a horrible society this would be if that were not the case.

How old is your father?

NCEC, as I just re-read your comment above, my guess is that your father is simply reaching out, and when he doesn't hear back he is hurt. A simply, "Thank you" reply would be sufficient. Just acknowledge that you read his email or text, that's essentially all any of us would ask for. It doesn't matter whether it is or is not your birthday. He's just looking for some reason to contact you. Men don't in general remember dates like birthdays.

Dear NCEC, I've missed you. I learned a lot from your previous post. Now you've done it again. Am I too focused on telling my ES that I love him? Am I being hurtful? Am I absolving myself of my behaviours in the situation? Do I really understand our relationship?

It may be that all our situations are different and as you have learned to cope with an estranged relationship with your father, we are learning that there is life after raising children who want nothing to do with us.

I pray that your pregnancy is progressing normally. Stay in touch. Blessings.

NCEC, I just went to your profile. In it you state that you will make comments, but will not respond to the comments of others. I find this offensive because this is how our children treat us here, from what I've read. They drop bombs, make accusations, etc. But, then we are given no opportunity to respond. My last phone call from my daughter (one of two in the past two years) was her yelling at me after insisting I put her on speaker so that my husband can hear what a horrible woman he married. I had people arriving for a Bible study and told her so. She said, "YOU DON'T EVEN CARE!" and hung up. I then told my guests what was happening and sent them all home. I texted her and phoned her but she would not answer or respond. The truth is I do care, a great deal. But, there is no dialogue. It is her yelling and screaming then hanging up, whether through phone, or email.

So, if you would like dialogue, I agree your insight is valuable. But for you to come on here and tell us this is how it is, then leave the conversation, I for one find hurtful. It brings up feelings of being treated on here--which is supposed to be a safe place--the same way I'm treated by my daughter and son.

I will not be responding to your comments, my dear. I hope you remain well and wish you all the best through your pregnancy.

Hold up CanadianMother, NCEC will respond and dialogue on her posts, which she authored. She will not respond not will she dialogue on all our other posts. I believe that you misunderstood her profile.

Thanks folks. I do appreciate this groups ability to be kind even when I bring an alternative perspective.

CanadianMoth, even if I was inclined to reply in the face of his blatant disrespect for my request to contact my husband and I together - there was no physical way I was ever going to be able to see the first email and reply within 6 minutes, even if we were on the best of terms. And Im definatley not going to reward his even worse behaviour of putting me down with a response now. It would just encourage more of the same to get a reaction from me. His reaction to accuse me and put me down is just childish and designed to be hurtful, lashing out to avoid dealing with his own hurt at being absent for the first 28 years of my life. I have a great deal of compassion for that and tried so hard to be there for him in that for 2 years. I have no ill feeling whatsoever about his absence, yet am constantly accused of it (projection) He responded with greater and greater projection till I was in such a state I wanted to drive my car into a tree. Praise God for restoring my mental health! I cannot fix this for him. My opinion, he has to face his pain himself and in order for that to happen I have to remove his scapegoat - me. I would love a relationship, but have had to learn that it is not the right time for him.

I am curious, would you characterise his messages above as reaching out in a respectful manner? He is 60.

Sallyannelass - I still believe that in many cases (baring drug addiction, abuse et al) , it takes two. I have not been able to give my father what he needs from me. Trying to figure out what was 'wrong with me' near about killed me. I feel I have a much healthier, balanced view now. Yep, by my very existance I contribute to the success and failure of my relationships. Let alone the humanity of my own communication style. But I no longer accept bearing the full brunt of responsibility for a relationship. Especially from a man with 28 years of suppressed guilt he's looking to offload. So I believe your questions are worthwhile, and healthy in moderation. Dont take it to victim status, like I did ('ooooh what is wrong with me that I cant please my father') but do use it to develop awareness and accountability. That is my $0.2 for what its worth. Hope it makes sense in an encouraging way - sorry trying to write this on my phone and is difficult to proof read.

Sorry CanadianMoth, I will have to ammend my profile. I mean I will only start and reply on my own posts and respond to public and privately asked questions. I will not butt into other peoples posts without an invitation because they are posting for the support of other estranged parents, not the opinion of an estranged child (me). Sorry for the misunderatanding.

Ammended now, does that read better? I am sorry it raised adverse feelings for you. My aim is exactly the opposite - that estranged parents not feel unsafe seeking support here because of my presence here - you know, postimg for support from other parents and getting an estranged childs opinion unexpectedly. If they dont want to hear an EC opinion they can just avoid posts by 'NCEC' and not be worried the ec opinion will pop up in there face elsewhere.

Thinking it through (the original post) and wondering why it is so impossible for him to respect my boundary of including my husband. EF even says he LIKES my husband so whats the problem. Things I might call a boundary, I have seen described here at times as 'eggshells' or 'control'. Are these two sides of the same fence? If so how is that reconcilled in a healthy manner without one party becoming a doormat for the other?

NCEC, Glad you are doing well with the pregnancy. The way you post here is a good way to do it (responding to comments on your own posts).

I can understand how you would see your EF's email as inappropriate as far as the part that he expected a reply so soon. Not quite sure why. It does not sound like a normal way of thinking and certainly sounds over anxious on his part. As far as having the birthdate wrong it may have been confusion on his part. Some men are bad at dates.

Many of us hear do not reach out (or often unless led by God) since it is not welcomed by our EC as stated by them or past history has shown us discouragement in their response or lack thereof. It takes a parent another period of recovery after each episode that is negative or ignored by an EC. It hinders the healing process we are seeking. With that being said, we only come to hesitating to reach out once the the toll of it has become to great to bear.

I personally was ignored on my recent birthday by our ED. I did not expect any thing different but the hurt is still there. I think the standout line in your EF's email was that he loves you. In my opinion, I would capitalize on this, ignore the rest, and build the relationship on love. Those words are music to the ears.

Pray first. Respond as you are led. Keep it positive. God bless you, your DH, and your baby.

just change your email address it is pretty easy to do if you don't want emails from him or anyone else....

I have found that while emails and texts are the new way of communicating, they can be misleading and hurtful even when not intended that way. I still feel the best way is face-to-face communication.

NCEC, may I suggest you send one more email saying that in order for your relationship to grow, the two of you need to sit down face-to-face over a cup of coffee or lunch and share your feelings, give each other a hug, and forgive each other.

Our ES was gone for 7 years. When my DH had surgery, I texted ES and asked him to pray. He wrote back asking if he could call me. He came to the hospital, both of us uncertain as to what the reunion would be. Our other son was angry with ES but told me later when his brother hugged him, all the anger left his body. The two boys sat and talked for hours waiting throughout the surgery. ES hugged me also and told me loved me.

We have only communicated a couple times since then. I told ES that he could take the lead as to how he wants our relationship to grow and at what pace. I told him I understand he has a family and that is first but we welcome any visits with him.

Meet with your father, give him a hug, and look him in the eye as you ask your questions. I'll be praying for you.

NCEC, thank you for your apology, both here and in the message you sent me. That shows a great deal of character.

You are becoming a mother, and so you might begin to understand the depth of hurt we mothers (and fathers, but I can only speak as a mother) go through. Like your father, I have sent many emails simply saying, "Happy birthday, I love you" only to be ignored, or worse, told not to send anymore emails. As I said previously, each of our situations are different.

Like others here, I have gotten on with my own life, but there is a void in my heart that will never go away. I miss my children and my grandchildren each and every day. I live a full life. I work. I am starting an estrangement support group in my city. I have a ladies' group that meets in my home. I have a husband who I spend time with. I have a father that I spend time with, friends who I spend time with. I have a life.

So, suddenly my daughter phones me out of the blue, and in essence what she said by getting so angry so fast is that I should not have my own life--I should be sitting by the phone waiting for her call. I mean, the audacity of me! Having friends over right at the one time in a year she decides to grace me with a phone call! I should have known she was going to phone on that particular evening!

I'm hoping you get my point here, although I do know I'm rambling. When it comes to our relationships with our estranged children, we're darned if we do and we're darned if we don't. Whatever we say is wrong in their eyes, whatever we do is wrong in their eyes. If we apologize, we are told we are weak, if we don't apologize we are told we are stubborn and don't care.

So, we are left with one option, and one option only….to try to somehow forget about the children we carried in our bellies for 9 months, the children we taught to skate, to tie their shoes, to talk, to walk. The children we cried over when they were sick. The children we had to let go off to school when it seemed they were too young. The children we cried with when they had their hearts broken as teenagers. All we would like is to be able to see them once in a while. To simply be a small part of their lives--just as other parents are with their children. We want to feel the hugs of our grandchildren. We want to hear their laughter. We don't want to control our children, we don't want to see them every day of their lives (remember, we have our own lives too), we just want to be able to answer people when they ask us how our children are doing instead of saying, "I have no idea."

That's all we want, and I expect that's all your father wants. I don't know anything about your father, but maybe he simply doesn't know how to express himself well. Cut him some slack, as long as he isn't abusive towards you.

I can't answer as to why he won't email your husband's email. Again, each situation is different. I've never been asked to do this, but certainly would if that was requested.

This is a long post, because I haven't read your other posts. Maybe this gives you some insight into the lives of estranged parents, and maybe it doesn't. But, it felt good for me, and after all, this is a site for us parents. :-)

God bless you real good, NCEC.

I know you have gone on with your own life Can. Moth...but if you have not talked to ED for a year and she calls wouldn't it be fine to excuse yourself from what ever else is going on and spend the time talking to her if she is finally willing to talk to you.....I know that is what I would do....I would drop everything if my ES of 18 years gone called and wanted to talk to me.......you are blessed you have SOOO many other things going on in your life..with a husband and friends and groups etc etc....lucky you.....but I still think the prodigal child should get all of your attention if he or she ever did call......just my thoughts on that......as for the emails why does he have to email the husbands email can't that person make one of their own....I am confused by that one....

Sadandlonely, my daughter phoned me 15 minutes before I was to start a Bible study. I live in a condo and the ladies were downstairs buzzing my phone to get into my building. I told my daughter the situation but she simply continued to yell and scream at me. I did send them all home and called her back. It was her decision not to answer the phone, not to call me when I left a message saying the ladies are all gone now, not to respond to my text message that I was now free to talk.

I did nothing wrong, sadandlonely. I'm not sure why you need to feel I erred. I did not.