Norse1:
There is nothing in the bible about leaving either the son's or daughter's families when they marry. They all unite together for these young people in a Christian showing of love and support.

Yes there is.
Matthew 19:4-6
"Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,' and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh' ? So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."

This is not a personal attack at all. I am merely trying to be constructive. I didn't know that people on a Christian site would be so against scripture.

MommyDearest101 - I am curious as to how you ended up here and why you feel qualified to try and help us. Your tone and attitude have been combative, judgmental and hurtful. I am happy for you that your children adore you, but I mean this with all sincerity, you have obviously not been in ours shoes and honestly you are not helping. It's very hard for even our closest friends and family to understand and to be of help. That is why we find comfort in others who are going through the same heartache. Enjoy your children and keep us in your prayers.

The above remarks were made before I read your last comment. I must ask you why you insist on judging us and accusing us of being against scripture. That in itself is not Christlike. No one here is against scripture and there is nothing in our remarks that says we do. None of us are interested in tearing apart the relationships that our adult children have, we simply want to be included.

http://divorcesupport.about.com/od/childrenanddivorce/qt/The-Difference-Between-Estrangement-And-Parental-Alienation-Syndrome.htm


Behaviors Common to an Estranged Parent:

The parent who is estranged from a child due to his/her own bad treatment of the child has a "wait and see" attitude. They don't pursue a relationship with the child because in their mind the child is the one responsible for mending the relationship.

The estranged parent will find it hard or impossible to view the situation from their child's perspective. They don't see their own behavior as playing a role in the problem; they feel entitled to behave badly with no repercussions.

More often than not it is the estranged parent that I come into contact with in my business. These are people who go months at a time without contacting their children because they are wrapped up in an affair and spending time with the other man/woman or busy building a new life post divorce. They don't understand why their children aren't waiting with open arms when they do find time to fit them into their schedule.

One man in particular comes to mind. He never went to a school function, refused to enter into counseling with his children when the therapist suggested and spent six years with minimal contact with his children. According to him though his ex-wife is guilty of parental alienation.

His words when asked about his children's anger toward him were, "it is what it is, I can't change it, I can only hope they come around one day." The truly alienated parent would be jumping through hoops to try and reconcile with his/her children. The estranged parent can't do such a thing because doing so would mean admitting and taking responsibility and the relationship with the child is not worth the discomfort that would come from acknowledging the damage they did to the parent/child relationship.

Parental Alienation Syndrome is dangerous to the emotional well-being of children and the continued parental bond with a parent. It is too often used as an excuse by bad parents to justify to themselves the results of that bad parenting and hurtful behaviors toward their children.

In both cases innocent children suffer due to the inability of a parent to put the needs of their children before their own needs and if, as a parent you can't do that then maybe you don't deserve a relationship with a child who is only looking for what any child has a right to expect, love, consideration and valuation from a parent.

OK. I will go. I think some of you could really heal you relationships with your kids but you would have to be a bit humble and introspective. I wish you all the best possible outcomes. Bye!

Thank you forgottenmomn - as I am reading all the mini sermons MommyDearest is sending us, maybe she is an ordained minister?

And, I too, wonder why MommyDearest is on this site for parents of estranged children. Why are you here MommyDearest? Who has hurt you so bad that you want to attack us?

I'm very sad for you and will keep you in my prayers.

MommyDearest1101 - You have come on here and judged us without even knowing us or our stories. I wish you all the best and I will pray for you.

You know who hurt me and tried to hurt my marriage Norske1? It was my narcissistic, controlling, abusive. mother in law who did not respect our marriage. She saw herself as a total victim independent of any responsibility.

Norske1, here is something for you from an ordained minister.
http://www.luke173ministries.org/537996

OK. This time I really will go. Bye!

MommyDearest101 - That link is to an article about abusive parents. WE ARE NOT ABUSIVE PARENTS!! Like I said before, you have come on here and made assumptions and accusations without knowing anything at all about each of us and our stories.

BINGO!! How sad is this. Some of us suspected all along that you may be a daughter in law. And we are sorry that your mother in law mistreated you, if that is the case. Being that you misrepresented yourself, makes me suspicious of your motive. Once a lie is spoken, all words come into question. I have spoken with an estranged child on this site who has been incredibly forthright about the estrangement and has given me great insights into such relationships. Though you say you are trying to help, you've offered no such insights. You have misrespresented the Word of God as well as yourself and have refused to answer questions honestly. You took kind hurting people and used them for your entertainment, churning up in them wounds that they carry like open sores. And yet, initially, they tried to be kind in responding to you. Every person on this site that I have dealt with has tried to look at themselves honestly in hopes of discovering areas where they could grow, improve and if necessary, change.

So yes, I will defend them. Because I know them. Of all the words that have come to my mind since this began hours ago, the one word I would like to leave with you is this...Shame. Shame on you for attempting to hurt good honest people. You could have come here and we would have treated you as we treat each other, with kindness and care. What you did was cruel. And uncalled for. We are not your mother in law. I hope tonight when you lay your head down to sleep, that you speak to God and ask His forgiveness for your behavior here today. I will ask for His forgiveness for my anger toward you.

Forgottenmama shared in a nutshell what needs to be understood by all who are following this discussion:

"None of us are interested in tearing apart the relationships that our adult children have, we simply want to be included."

Ladies and gentlemen, THIS is the crux of the issue, that we want to be included and needed. I applaud those of you who stood your ground with me on this ongoing extended discussion as God is extremely pleased we are all in one accord with His Spirit guiding us! I am so proud of you all! (Smile)

Ah ha! So the bitter, relentless and disgruntled MommyDearest101 turns out to be an imposter! I discerned this from the start like many of you! She will maintain her assumptions and judgments about us without prior knowledge and proof while lacking maturity and experience. She has the gall to suggest we try to be a bit humble and introspective! What?? How dare her! She cleverly disguised herself in order to be cruel, maliciously wounding our already broken hearts. Throwing random scriptures at us totally out of context without proven support defeats her arguments. She has done nothing but simply interpret Bible scriptures to justify her own self-serving needs. What a sadly wretched individual! I will be praying for God's mercy on her soul as she has both disgraced and dishonored herself.

As God always does, he has used this incident that the enemy intended to harm us with to strengthen us. At least it has me. I have been doing really well until this last week. I am not sure what brought it on but I was finding myself slipping back into the pit of sadness and self pity. Through this exchange I have a renewed sense of family that has risen inside of me. All of you here have no idea the profound impact you have had on my life. As the mother of one deceased infant, a son who has been torn from our family by his wife, parents who seem to be sympathetic to DIL and friends who just don't understand; I have felt so isolated and alone. My DH is an awesome man of God but he is in this too and struggles with his own grief. So all of you have become family to me, a true support system. We were united tonight and it felt good to stand up together for something we believed in. I love you all.

To God be the glory for the great things He has done! I got so pumped and blessed by His Spirit for what was accomplished this evening which extended into longer hours I never anticipated happening. How I rejoice in His abiding and protective love, for making things vividly plain and clear for us to see, affirming us, providing us the gift of His discernment, and enabling us to know what the Word truthfully means, not justifying our own interpreted version. What was considered harmful turned into goodness like Joseph shared in Genesis 50:20... "You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives." I have fallen back on this wonderful scripture promise countless times ever since my precious mother shared it with me years ago and keep applying it to my life because it never fades away or becomes useless. I forever keep it in mind. God continues accomplishing wonderful things through negative experiences. We were tested and tried tonight, but God won the victory! I am so thankful to be a Christian, a member of CPEAC and having been blessed to adopt all of you as my extended family. A year ago this time, I was so down and out and more depressed than ever before and had no one to turn to who would genuinely understand, to share with and give me the needed support I desperately needed. It wasn't happenstance I stumbled onto CPEAC, but God's will was done so I could benefit from it as well as contribute to it. Our group which is amazingly growing close-knit as the time passes has united beautifully and unbelievably as we are truly in one accord with God. Are you surprised? I'm not at all! God does thing right to His perfect will and plan for our lives. We have strengthened each other immeasurably with our love, care, support, and prayers we haven't been able to find elsewhere as hard as we have searched for them. Yes, without doubt, we were dealing with a source from the enemy bent on doing us harm, but the Lord won out and because of this we can testify and share of His mercy and wonders of His rich grace as we sought His guidance and counsel. God is to be praised for His unfailing love and goodness to us, for setting us apart to be what He would have us to be. Standing our ground and speaking the truth set us free and now we can soar on wings like eagles! I love Jesus and all of you! Have a blessed Lord's Day and make it count for Him!

Again I have to say how uplifted I feel with the love and assurance of God's word through all of you who have supported me when I didn't even know why I was being attacked. Yes, God does work in mysterious ways. The fellowship we have is definitely a gift from God.

Guelsmom opened up this opportunity for us to grieve, reach out, pray, receive strength in His word and each other and move on living the lives He had always planned for us. God is good.

I was taken aback by MommyDearest's comments, so couldn't even think straight as to some of the things I wanted to ask her, because I do believe she is hurting from something other than a meddling MIL. I wonder if she treats her own mother the same way?

Nevertheless, you were all in my prayers as I laid my head down on my pillow last night exhausted from the day. And MommyDearest was in my prayers also. God leads us - if only we will follow.

I think it is time to back up a bit and try and see where things started going downhill in the discussions. I would like to see some Christian humility concerning this comment by MommyDearest....

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Reply #14 (delete) - 05/18/13 4:29pm

Norske1 said:
green123 - I am sorry you were raised by dysfunctional parents. You should not have had to go through that.

For me, my ES was a wonderful loving person, had a strong Christian faith and we were a very close family. His estrangement came when he married and his wife made him choose between her and his family. She was not a Christian.

No offense Norske1 but his wife is his family. Have you read Genesis 2:24
--Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.
How about Matthew 19:6
--Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

It is actually Satanic to try to break up a marriage. Yes, Satan works through people sometimes.
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From my observations I would like to say that....

1) It is wise to resist the urge to accept stereotypes of anyone - MIL's, DIL's, etc. Even though they might be accurate, stereotypes are reductive and can cloud your judgment. Base your judgments only on the most apparent facts. This is the most logical way of doing things, and it'll stop you from make false assumptions altogether.

Have I done that? Absolutely! We all have at some time or another if we are to be completely honest with ourselves. I know because I have been taken to task for it even in this group. (And I might add that I too have been greatly misunderstood by some of who I have considered to be my Christian brothers and sisters also.) So, my comments are made with complete awareness of my own imperfections in this area.

Having said that, in the above reply #14, I do see where there is no justification for "assuming that the Norske's comment...." His estrangement came when he married and his wife made him choose between her and his family. She was not a Christian" should not have been interpreted to jump to the conclusion that Norske was being used by Satan ....."to try to break up a marriage." In NO way should Norske's comments be misconstrued to mean that she ever intended to try and break up the marriage.

For this, I do believe that that was unfair and unkind to Norske and I do believe that she is due an apology for it.

2) As far as the verses that were used in the above reply goes, if you take those two verses and use them without other verses in scripture then yes, those verses are accurate. When a man leaves his parents and gets married, the spouse comes first. I don't think that you would have any disagreement from anyone here either - if read only as they are.

But scripture does not say that neither the relationship nor certain responsibilities towards the parent ends with marriage. It does not say that the relationship ceases to exist when the rest of scripture is read about this subject. (Read my new topic on this)

Lastly, I would like to have comments on this ceased until MommyDearest has been given appropriate time to think about what has been suggested. But, more importantly, to consider what the new topic I posted has to say about the issue that became a matter of heated controversy.

Thank You,
GuelsMom (aka Mom2Guel)