i wouldn't believe everything you hear, you need to, listen to both sides and see the truth, billy graham, was a evangelist, brought many to the foot of Jesus, and was a man of God, who as i say brought millions, to the cross, right across the world, you need to look in to his life story and his life, and his teachings, look at it with a view, not to keep picking up peoples faults, we are all human, look in to why he said things how he said them and in what context, not keep looking at videos to vivify people, look at all sides, and then make an informed choice,xxx

i wouldn't believe everything you hear, you need to, listen to both sides and see the truth, billy graham, was a evangelist, brought many to the foot of Jesus, and was a man of God, who as i say brought millions, to the cross, right across the world, you need to look in to his life story and his life, and his teachings, look at it with a view, not to keep picking up peoples faults, we are all human, look in to why he said things how he said them and in what context, not keep looking at videos to vivify people, look at all sides, and then make an informed choice, xxx

the gardener - I have nothing against Billy Graham. I am just surprised at what his views were on different issues that are different from many mainstream churches' views (teachings). The part of his belief that I am not sure I can agree with is about "salvation is not only through Jesus", not that I know everything. I know a Catholic and a believer from the Reformed church who have the same view as Billy Graham's view on this subject. Maybe they get the idea from the Old Testament. I personally don't think Catholicism is satanic, and whether the Mormons are saved or not, I don't know. In the clip, the person who does the talking says Billy Graham was a manipulator who got people to accept Jesus through manipulation. I don't know much about Billy Graham except he was one of the popular and successful evangelists. As a new believer (48 years ago), his book "Peace with God" helped me a lot spiritually. It was also mentioned in the clip that Billy Graham said in an interview that he supported abortion in case of rape. I personally don't support abortion but I think I am more like a pro-choice person when it comes to this issue. I look at it as a bad solution but understandable.

Thank you so much for replying to my post.

Thanks for sharing the video.

I was only able to watch part of the video and the sound on the parts where Billy Graham was supposedly speaking had lower volume and was pretty hard to hear (probably just because the tapes of it are old). I know that Billy Graham was a very well known evangelist, but I am not personally familiar with his teachings.

Even though I did hear Rev. Graham say a few things that might not be right I don't like to criticize people who've already passed away. I feel like it serves no purpose. We can't change their mind now. If it's really necessary, I'd rather talk about what is correct Bible teaching on whatever certain subject the person making the video thinks the famous person may have been wrong about. We also all do need to be reading the Bible to see whether the things we're being taught are true. But, if we find something wrong shouldn't we notify the person teaching it first....

It's good to see young people like the young man in the video reading the Bible and learning about what it says. And , I know that using Billy Graham's name will certainly draw attention to this young man's blog, but that method doesn't really appeal to me. A lot of the videos these young people are making feel like "shock jock radio", even if they're ever technically right their approach is questionable (in my opinion)......

I hope everyone is doing well.

Beryl, Thank you for your reply and comments. Yesterday I happened to read an article in which the author said Billy Graham believed there is no second baptism of the Holy Spirit. He believed that believers are baptized with the Holy Spirit at the conversion. I personally believe there are two different baptisms and both can occur at the same time (at conversion). People with the two different views (interpretations) both use Bible verses to support their beliefs. I don't mean for this to be a subject of argument, just want to share Billy Graham's belief in this subject.

In the article:

"Billy Graham, "I do not doubt the sincerity of this preacher. However, in my own study of the Scriptures through the years I have become convinced that there is only one baptism with the Holy Spirit in the life of every believer, and that takes place at the moment of conversion. This baptism with the Holy Spirit was initiated at Pentecost, and all who come to know Jesus Christ as Savior share in that experience and are baptized with the Spirit the moment they are regenerated. In addition, they may be filled with the Holy Spirit; if not they need to be."

(I saw it differently from Billy Graham and don't think this is an easy subject. It is best to say there are two different opinions and interpretations).

https://jameslau88.com/2020/05/23/baptized-with-the-holy-spirit-by-billy-graham/

Oh, interesting. I think when I've read the Bible and it uses the word "baptize" or "baptism" that it's for the most part talking about a person's initial baptism when they first became believers in Jesus. There was one incident in Acts 19:1-10 where Paul rebaptized some people who had only received "the baptism of John" and then the Holy Spirit came upon them (when they were baptized because of believing in Jesus). But since the good news of Jesus is what is preached now that won't likely happen again. For sure we all receive the Holy Spirit when we become believers in Jesus.

There are also times in the New Testament, mostly but not always in the book of Acts, when people who have been believers for years (for sure Peter and Paul, but possibly others) are said to be "filled with the Spirit", but from the different readings it seems to happen to people like Peter and Paul more than once, and appears to be related to a specific task or situation, but I don't find any verses that say that that happens to everyone or happens all the time.

I think this is probably one of those things where we can just know that God can do so many different things that we can just thank Him and praise Him for how he works in our lives and in others' lives even if it doesn't look the same for everyone.

Some charismatic preachers, I think, do not focus on Bible study and got into trouble themselves. I tried to figure out why some mega (charismatic) churches' leaders got into money and sexual problems (from what I saw on youtube) and just recently concluded that they don't follow the moral instructions in the Bible.

There are verses in the Bible that point to the second baptism. A Baptist Bible teacher said if someone wants to know about the Holy Spirit, talk to charismatic churches' preachers or teachers. I think a charismatic preacher who knows the Bible well is someone who will make sense when he preaches or teaches the Bible. One of the charismatic preachers, Rheinard Bonke, a German evangelist, who supposedly converted 79 million people, was once asked in an interview why we don't see many miracles in churches today. His answer was it was because there was not enough faith. Here is some information about this evangelist. (He passed away in 2019 at 79). He preached in churches that teach prosperity gospel. I found a lot of his old sermons very powerful and fine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GS3wIIVqbE

https://pmnewsnigeria.com/2019/12/08/life-and-times-of-evangelist-reinhard-bonnke/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinhard_Bonnke#:~:text=It%20is%20estimated%20that%20over,a%20result%20of%20Bonnke's%20ministry.

https://www.christianitytoday.com/news/2019/december/reinhard-bonnke-died-evangelist-christ-for-all-nations-afri.html

Thanks for all the links about Reinhard Bonnke, it was interesting reading. I couldn't read the second one because it would only let me go to the page if I "allowed notifications", and I don't like to do that - not even with local sites. But the rest of it was interesting. I'm glad you've benefitted from some of his sermons.

I'm curious though... When you said "There are verses in the Bible that point to the second baptism " can you tell me more about which verses you mean (or which passages even if you don't know the references) ? I'm just curious, so if you'd rather not that's ok too. I have read the whole Bible multiple times, but I definitely haven't got it all memorized - not even close. I just don't remember reading any part that I thought was referring to a "second baptism ".

Anyway, thanks, and God bless you.

Acts 1:5 NLT - (Jesus's words) "John baptized with water, but in just a few days you will be baptized by the Holy Spirit."

Luke 24:49 NRSV - (Jesus' words) "And see, I am sending upon you what my Father promised; so stay here in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high."

Matthew 3:11 NED - (John's words) "I baptize you with water, for repentance, but the one coming after me is more powerful than I am. I am not worthy to carry his sandals. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire."

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[This is a very long article. If you don't have the patience to read every word, you can skim through it].

"Is The Baptism in the Holy Spirit For Today?" by Bob Millsaps

From the article:

"Another line of reasoning goes like this: Why would Jesus tell the disciples, his apostles, to wait to receive something they have already received? I believe that the disciples were “In Christ”. They had walked with Jesus for three years. Jesus was a pretty awesome soul winner. You can tell by the words that Jesus said to them that they had already received the gift of Salvation. John 15:3 Jesus is talking to them, “You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you.” This is not physical cleansing but spiritual cleansing."

"However – at that point in their life – they were not yet baptized in the Holy Spirit. One of the great mistakes many Pentecostals and people who believe in the Baptism in the Holy Spirit is to tell those who haven’t received the Baptism in the Holy Spirit that they don’t have the Holy Spirit. That is ridiculous theology. You can’t even get saved without the Spirit drawing you to Christ, doing the work of regeneration, sealing you with the Holy Spirit. Those things are not what the baptism of the Holy Spirit is all about. What the disciples received in Acts 2, 10, and 19 was an empowerment for service."



https://folcc.org/is-the-baptism-in-the-holy-spirit-for-today-five-things-to-consider/

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There are different interpretations of Acts 1:5, Luke 24:49, and Matthew 3:11. I think the reason why I believe the same as Pentecostal believers do in this subject is because as a new Christian, the first church I attended for three years is an Assembly of God church. Their teaching worked for me.

Hi Lavender.

Thanks for the verses and the article. I haven't thoroughly read them yet, but wanted to let you know I saw them and appreciate the information.

Hope you're well.

I hope you are doing well yourself. I just bought Reinhard Bonnke's books, "Evangelism by Fire" and "Daily Fire." "Daily Fire" is a devotional. Here are the amazon's links for the books.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/1616383712?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

https://www.amazon.com/dp/1629115533?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

I lost my new pal (the orange cat) after having him for six weeks. It turned out that his owner who is my neighbor two houses down was looking for him and wanted him back. My daughter and I have been sad. Our unfixed female cat, however, is pregnant now by the orange cat and should have the kittens about three weeks from now. Please pray for the pregnant cat and her unborn kittens that they will be all safe. Our tight space in the house makes it difficult to arrange a safe spot for them. We are still clearing one area in my daughter's room for them. If the cat has more than one kitten, my daughter's friend will take two. My daughter wants to keep two. The mom cat is the cat in my daily strength profile picture.

By the way, I was worried about offending you with my talk on the latest subject. There are different opinions and interpretations about it.

No. There is no so-called Baptism of the Holy Spirit. I got into that when I was first saved. But the verses you posted Lavender, say no such thing. If we don't get the Holy Spirit when we are saved, then we aren't saved.

There is no need for a second baptism, because we already have God, in the person of the Holy Spirit living with us from the moment God saves us.

Pentecostalism started in 1905, in Azusa Street in San Fransisco. So for the rest of history, no one had the Holy Spirit leading and guiding them? Nonsense!

I attended Pentecostal/ charismatic churches for 15 years after God saved me. I was not hearing the same message being preached as I was reading daily in my Bible. It was a shallow, over-emotional and unbiblical mov't. Best thing I ever did was to leave those churches.

As far as Billy Graham is concerned. I attended his Crusade in a Vancouver BC, in 1984. I was a counsellor at the Crusade, and in the follow up committee. It's interesting. I remember I looked up before how many people prayed to receive Jesus during that Crusade. It numbered more than 10,000 people. Maybe more. But I couldn't find it anywhere, the number is gone.

At any rate, people streamed to the front. After, I was given the names of 10 people to phone in my area, to follow up with a Bible study. Not one person was interested. I went back to my captain, who was in charge of 10 people doing follow up. Not one person in 100 was interested in a Bible study or going to church. And, the Billy Graham association admitted almost none of those 10,000+ people followed up,

It led me to coin my phrase, "Get out if hell free" card! Say a sinner's prayer, go to heaven. No need to ever think about Jesus again in your life. Let alone read the Bible, go to church or pray. I've led a few people to Christ. They wanted to know God better. And they wanted to tell people about him.

Some people criticize Billy Graham's theology, But by 1984, it was his methods that didn't work, the whole format did not create disciples.

But, many people did come to Christ in the 1950's & 1960's. So, even one soul is important. Jesus said to find the lost sheep, I think Billy Graham was doing that, originally.

I am glad I went, and heard him speak. It was a very simple message, and Billy Graham was a powerful speaker. I just wish more of those prayers had been real.

Hi Marlene, So good to see you. Thank you for replying to my post. I hope you are getting much better healthwise now. How have you been doing?

The group has been slow as usual. I don't know whether there are any Christian groups in DS that are still active. I hope you can post on a regular basis again.

Billy Graham was good at preaching. I knew nothing about his theology until I watched that youtube clip. His booklet, "Peace With God," helped me a lot as a new believer when I was twenty years old. I was surprised that someone talked about him as a false teacher. Some charismatic preachers talk about non-charismatic teaching on baptism with the Holy Spirit as wrong teaching, and vice versa. I think each one sees it differently when they read the Bible verses on this subject. Talking about Billy Graham here happened to lead to the subject. I don't mean for it to be an argument. I can bring this subject to private messages with members who are interested.

Again, it is good to see you.

Hi Lavender, just wanted to add that I wasn't offended by anything you said.

Things are pretty busy here and I'm not finished reading on this subject. I'll read (probably all) the passages that mention the Holy Spirit at length when I get a chance.

I'm glad Billy Graham's booklet helped you.

Has your cat had the kittens yet? I hope they are healthy, but few. The last time my family had a pregnant cat I think it had 6 or 8 kittens -- but that was decades ago when I was a teenager so I don't really remember....

I am glad you are doing fine. I thought you were busy and missed seeing your posts. I have not had time to read the two books I bought that are written by Rheinhard Bonnke and was very busy setting up places for the pregnant cat to have her kittens. According to the 65 days calculation of how long cats' pregnancy lasts, today is the 65th day. We are still waiting and watching her and hope she does not end up having her kittens behind the one cluttered area in the living room. We probably should lock her up in my daughter's room now but have not done it yet. She has been in and out of the room.

About the different opinions or interpretations on the subject we were talking about, I am glad you still feel it is something you do not discard. I think it is good to know and understand different interpretations and belief on the doctrines. It is interesting how Christians (preachers in particular) read the same verses and see different things.

Please pray for our pregnant cat and her upcoming kittens that they all will be safe and the mom cat landed on a safe spot. I hope and pray things are going well with you and your son and the lady in the house.