Made perfect

1Jo 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.


Jhn 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Hbr 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

Christ paid for our sins permantly for the ones who accept Him as their Savior once and for all when he went to the cross and was crucified. So, Christians can stand before God in perfection and thus be accepted into heaven. What a wonderful truth!!

PenguinPeru, Are you saying that if you accept christ you can sin and it's ok, they're permantly covered?

scratch, I am saying that when one accepts Him as Savior, God becomes like a parent. Many born-again Christians don't have a desire to go and return back to their previous lifestyles when they get saved. The Holy Spirit prevents them from following through when their mind is open to that temptation. So, yes, once you accept Christ, you can sin, but more likely you won't want to. No, it's NOT O.K. to sin. However, God sent His Son down to earth, knowing we're only humans and are not perfect. So, we're permantly covered.

If we weren't permantly covered, then Christ would have been crucified for nothing.

Thanks for not capitalizing my name!! :-)

I've seen those saved fall!! That condition is worse than that before.

But I think you gave a good example in your last comment of the scripture that says something like, little children, if a man sins, he has not seen, nor known the father.

For Christians who DO sin, God disciplines us while here on earth and NOT an eternal judgment. The unsaved sinner is different because they do go through the eternal judgment at the Great White Throne Judgment.

As we grow in our faith and walk with the Lord, we become more mature and sinning becomes an act we do our best to avoid. That's why everyday it's good to go to the Lord and prayer and repent for our sins. He's there to forgive us.

scratch, I'm in the same boat as you on that. Personally, I've been a Christian for over 20 years now and have had my ups and downs. However, I have never completely fell away, because I don't have that desire and thankfully through the Holy Spirit, He gives us, it keeps us on the right path.

It's good I could help out. Praise the Lord. God bless you.

Some sin is to death, no?

If you're talking about eternal death, there is only one sin that is to death and that's never accepting the Lord as Savior. It's referred to as "blaspheming the Holy Spirit". Yes, the other sins are really bad and I could name quite a few here. However, when one becomes a child of Christ, the desire to do those sins disappears. If one doesn't accept Christ, then what happens is that they are responsible for those sins and are guilty of those sins.

God knows the heart and pride is what keeps the unsaved from being saved. When one murders while unsaved, if they remain unsaved, then they're guilty of that sin. However, if they accept Christ after that sin (from the heart), then that sin is gone forever. Does God like that sin? ABSOLUTELY NOT! However, He is very forgiving and if that person humbly accepts the Lord seriously from their heart, then the Lord will wipe their slate clean.

Are w e talking about once saved always saved ? Do some believe the
Bible teaches as long as we have accepted Jesus as our saviour that
we then have our eternal place in heaven no matter how we may live
or if we may fall away?

I think so...

MelofNC, we are talking about that issue. What we need to realize is that God knows the heart. Salvation is between the person and the Lord. True Christians are permanently saved. We can only speculate that some "Christians" aren't saved by the fruit they bear (lives that they live) aren't Christlike. That doesn't mean we have to live perfect lives, but there are some Christians who just seem to live like the rest of the world. Those, I wonder if they ever accepted the Lord in the first place.

As for those who fall away, are we talking about totally turning from God. If so, once again, I wonder if they were ever saved in the first place. Yes, one could be a preacher and not be saved. I've heard cases of those who preach and teach in Sunday School, suddenly completely falling away. We must keep in mind, that they may have never been saved.

As I said before, only God truly knows the heart. The only indication is by the fruits of their actions. Good fruits define a mature Christian.

I am only want to discuss this in a very God-like manner, BUT this is something I feel VERY strongly about.. I do not believe that everyone
that gets saved,and falls back into the traps and sins of this world,(backsliding) and then dies in this condition will make it to heaven.
I do believe there is plenty of scripture to back it up. I believe wants Christians to believe that as long as that prayer of salvation has been made,God is just a forgiving God that forgives everything else we do, no matter how we may live- as long as we say our prayers
at night to ask for forgiveness !!???? REALLY?! Because I believe
Salvation is the GRANDE FIRST step, But I don't believe it stops there.
I believe God has a certain standard of living he expects from his people, and he spells it out perfectly clear in the Bible- And will
we make mistakes ? Of course! And he forgives. But I don't believe you ask forgiveness for the same sin everynight that you get up every
morning with no intention of stopping or changing! Jesus says in Matthew 7:21 " Not everyone that saith unto me Lord,Lord,shall enter into the kingdom of heaven . And people will say.... didn't we prophesy in your name and cast out devils... And I will say Depart from me ye workers of iniquity, I NEVER KNEW YOU@!
In James Ch:4 Whosoever will be a friend of the world will be an
enemy of God.
Also In James: To him that knoweth to do good,and doeth it not,it
is a sin.
God also says if you do not live a life on fire for him, he would rather you be hot or cold because if you are lukewarm,he will spew
you out of his mouth!!

I don't believe people like to believe that satan is alive and well
and he has the capabilities that he has always had-as scary as that is
to think! Is God Greater !!! ABSOLUTELY!!!!! But if a saved person does
not stay strong in prayer and in the word of God and allows himself
to get weak, they are fooling themselves to believe Satan will not
be all up in that throwing every worldly weakness they ever had in their face! & If you've heard the new "casting Crowns" song - its a SLOW FADE.... Black and white turn to grey..... It happens
I don't believe in this "truely saved or not truely saved"- The bible
says confess thy sins with your mouth and believe with your heart
Anyone can be saved- but not everyone chooses to walk the walk for a
lifetime and I believe the Bible teaches us if you're not on that
walk when your time comes, you're no better off than someone who
never opened their heart to him at all .

There is definately a dif. in kneeling and worshiping the cross. And picking it up and following to where Christ led. Few do it. They don't realize, he is no longer there.