Sorry about my Avitar, Allora. Currently in the Healthy Sex support group I am quite active there is a discurrion about lingerie, so I just thought I'd use this one for awhile.

I love the avatar. I love beautiful lingerie. No need to apologize. We are sexual creatures. (Duh. That's why a lot of us are here!) :)

We are. We are. But, girlfriend. This girl is voluntarily celibate!

Great question Allora. I am sorry that you have to ask it. Yes. I lied to everyone. And it is so out of character for me. Certainly having an A was out of character- so I guess all bets were off.

Of course I had to come up with alibis to be with my OM. But then as things got deeper with my OM (a single guy) I tried to protect him from knowing too much about what I would do with my H. So when I was going out to dinner with my H and my OM asked to see me, I would say that I plans with a girlfriend. I just didn't want to talk to him about my relationship or doings with my H.

There were also occasions when girlfriends would ask to hang out and if I had plans with OM, I would make something up to tell them.

it's no way to live. I am sorry that your H cheated. I am sorry that I did as well. Good luck to you working this out!

Great. Lets have some cockshots too then if this is what the avatars are going to be.

In answer to the question ..... yes the lying married sack lied to his wife and to me. It is what liars DO.

Although I am legally still married to my husband, I never have considered myself a "cheater" in that respect. We were separated before I started anything the MM I've been seeing. I had told my husband that I wanted to date other people while we were in our "trial separation," and after he continued to lie (the main issue that led to the separation to begin with, along with a sex addiction) I told him that there was no chance.

Did I tell him about the person I've been seeing specifically? Nope. None of his business. With any luck, I'll be divorced in a month or so. My state just has these ridiculous waiting periods like if you have already tried a year and a half of marriage counseling living apart for 6 months will do anything. But I digress...

As for the MM, K, at first I told him everything. I was able to tell him the things I tried to tell my husband but that he never cared to listen to. When I say everything, I do mean basically everything. We have the same job with different franchises, so he understands what I do on a level that no one else does. We talked about family and childhood and our future and our dreams. There weren't any lies.

He is very sincere, and I believe the things that he tells me about his marriage and family because he gets very emotional about it. He tries not to talk about her that much or to complain, but there have been times that she said something especially cruel to him that he couldn't hold back. He claims there has been no sex in over a year. I'm not sure how accurate that really is, but he said that she is not a sexual person and never has been. She always took the outlook that "sex is a chore" to be finished as soon as possible and with little mess or fuss. He claims she isn't adventurous, has never given him oral sex and was completely disgusted and offended the one time he did ask. She's so vanilla that calling her that is a disservice to the flavor. She made him feel like a pervert or freak for wanting sex in the first place. Once she got the kids she wanted she was done with him.

Regardless of the truth (or lack thereof) when it comes to that, it has started becoming too much. The truth of the matter is that they are still married. He says for the kids. He has plans to separate and divorce. Plans. Haha. We'll see if they ever materialize. Even if he isn't lying about that, a lot of obstacles can come up that delay or hinder the process. So I'm trying to pull back emotionally, to distance myself. There was a period of time that I told him I wanted to date - that I couldn't be exclusive with him until he could be mine for real.

That's the area where the "whole truth" aspect of our relationship started to break down. He said that he didn't want to hear about it - he didn't want to know about the other men I went on dates with. So I didn't tell him. That just about killed me. If I wasn't available, I just didn't answer, although the truth of the matter is even when I was on a date with another guy if a text popped up from him I responded. He's always been what I want.

About a month or two into me dating I told him how many guys I had been on a date with - 8. He went wild with jealousy. I wasn't expecting that, but he really couldn't handle it well at all. I had been honest about dating, told him I was going to do it, yet he still seemed deeply wounded. After I told him that I had kissed one of the guys he tried to be okay with it, but he wasn't. That's when we "broke up" the first time. The truth is, I went farther than just kissing. I couldn't bring myself to tell him that with how upset he got. I didn't lie about seeing other people or being exclusive with him, but seeing his reaction I did choose to hide from him JUST how not exclusive I was.

After that point I realized that I really don't need to date or go looking for someone. So I didn't. I didn't see K, I didn't date other guys, I just focused on myself. That lasted a little bit. Now I'm right back to talking to him again, although not as much or as openly as I did before. I can tell he's still a little guarded, too. I think that's the way it needs to be until he's free to be with me for real. We live in different states about 12 hours apart, so we don't see each other in person and haven't since February. We will see each other again in July, though, and I'm not really sure what to expect.

So - that's a long answer to say that I never lied to him until I did, and I have no proof that he's lied to me. :)

Jadedbylife - did you ever feel like you were rescuing K? Sort of saving him from his miserable marriage and giving him a better option?

I did, absolutely. And that was in spite of being very close to his wife. I came to think that she had used sex to hook him, kids to keep him. I believed that she was withholding sex to make him do what she wanted, that he was working too hard because she was a spoiled princess. And that he would have been better off with me.

Poor thing. It wasn't until he assaulted me that I started to wonder what he might have put her through.

My case seems to be a little different than the other posters.

I was raised very religiously, and part of that training was to make everything okay at all costs. So I lied to nearly everyone in my life in some form or another. And when I cheated, I lied to my spouse and I lied to my family. But then, this was nothing new, as lies were simply part of the way life worked.

I did not lie to my affair partner. He was single at the time, so unlike many of the OMs previously mentioned, he didn't have his own spouse he was cheating on. Now saying that I absolutely never lied would be difficult, because when you spend years working "white lies" into everything, it's a hard habit to break. However, I often caught myself saying something false, and got into the new habit of stopping on the spot when I noticed and correcting myself. This honesty in the friendship that I had with him was part of what made me vulnerable to the affair.

I have come to believe this is atypical. I also got divorced and entered an exclusive relationship with the man who was once my OM, and have been very happy there for some years now. We're still hard on about the honesty and focus on a lot of communication. But during these past years, I have also made some serious reevaluations of my life and changed a good many things.

I think that sometimes, as was in my case, lying is so much a part of the image that we put forward, that we don't always recognize omissions and embellishments for what they are. Sometimes it is hard to accurately state who we lied to and how, because we are so used to adapting the truth to match that image that we can no longer differentiate. I had to work for years to break out of that persona, so as to where my reflex reaction is not to lie about everything being fine. So if your H is unable to really articulate, he might be similar.

Thank you, Eva. I know that some lies are told out of malice, but I also think that most lies told in/around affairs are lies of protection. Not that it makes them RIGHT, but I at least can understand the driving motivation behind them.

As with a lot of other aspects of the affair, I try to understand not only what happened but how so that I can do my part to ensure that we don't replay this scenario in the future. Clearly, nothing is a guarantee, but I do think that I understand more and more how my own actions (or inactions) lead to the collapse of our marriage and to both of us being susceptible to an affair.

I can't make him do anything, but I can listen to him without harsh judgement. I can work to ensure a "safe zone" so that he can be honest with him and doesn't feel the need to lie. I can let him know what my expectations are as far as honesty and what I want him to confide in me. It's a start, eh?

hi Allora...
I have to also agree that some people tell lies to cover up their bad behavior and bad decisions cause they really may not want to give up their M... In my personal situation I did lie, and had to omit a lot so that my H didn't leave me. this doesn't make it right, it just explains that I didn't want to be caught cause I didn't want to lose my M..I am no longer a liar cause im no longer in the A. When I am out of the A I have no reason to make up lies about where I was going, and what I was doing. I suppose during the A I was a liar, but now that im out, I am not... I think for some people like me, I only lied when I was scared to be found out. Fear sometimes is a big motivator to tell lies to not be caught.. I think you sound very compassionate and nonjudgemental.. and Yes that is a good start...
heard

Allora - I don't really think I am rescuing him. Although rescuing has been a pattern of mine. I did that with my husband. I've done my best to stay away from that with K. I've told him that it is up to him to decide what he wants and to pursue it.

I'm trying to learn to be selfish. I'm sure that sounds strange. My entire life I have been a giver, someone who gives up my own wants and needs for others. Like Eva, I was raised in a strict religious household. You are taught that there is no higher purpose than to sacrifice yourself for another, as Christ did. Just writing that now makes me want to go throw up, but it was beat into my head (almost literally).

In many ways it has made me a good person - compassionate, willing to listen, and nonjudgmental (not sure how I got that when my #1 biggest complaint about religion is all of the judging). When I love someone I will do everything in my power and then some for them to have their needs and desires fulfilled. I even get a great deal of pleasure and satisfaction from that.

The negatives are that can get out of control easily with someone who is a taker. My ex was definitely a taker. He took everything I had and then demanded more, while simultaneously giving me very, very little in return. Being someone who doesn't know how to say "No" to the people I love has at times exhausted and drained me. I have found my own needs ignored, and I've been complicit in that.

I did NOT want that to be my pattern again. For the most part I've been pretty good about that with K. He, too, is a giver. He would almost prefer to give than receive, just like me. It has made for a much different dynamic than I've ever experienced. I told him early on that I'm not here to save him. He has to do that for himself. Or choose to live in what he has self-described as misery.

In the past I would try to cajole or influence someone who I saw doing something that I deemed destructive or a poor decision into changing. Then I would support and carry them through, putting everything else aside. I realize now how incredibly codependent and counterproductive that is. It hinders them from being their own person. It holds me back from focusing on my own needs.

So I'm not doing that. I have a deadline in my head for how long I will wait for him to make a decision. If he doesn't follow through in that amount of time, then I will accept his decision for what it is. I'm not going to try to rescue him. He's a grown man. If he wants to get out, he knows how. If he decides that living in the same house with his children full-time is more important than his own fulfillment, then I have to accept his decision as their father and as a man. It will be difficult, but it is what it is.

What if living with his kids IS his fulfillment?

It's possible. Kids grow up, though. And he's told me and many others just how unfulfilling his life is. He has his kids who he loves with his whole heart, and his job, which he's very good at. Beyond that he just thought happiness and support and love from another person wasn't in store for him. He had sadly resigned himself to that, and maybe that's where he will stay. That is his decision to make, so I can't say.