morning, and i just got done ready this post, and here are my thoughts..
cole, gabi has worked really hard, and has been successful in the past 20 months, please dont throw all her hard work away for a 1 minute phone call that she only reacted to humanly.. you think he will call again and that she built up hope, but your not sure, your just assuming that took place.. i have to agree with redlegs that he may never call again,.. maybe she did make it clear by her tone, that it was over, and dont forget the fact, that it is OVER for her!! dont push he back by denying all her hard work and remorse.. she did the best she could under the circumstances...
as far as her and other men, your assuming again that this will happen.. having doubts in her at this point will only make matters worse.. please give her credit where credit is due.. she is trying, and has done an excellent job repairing her marriage with you, and should be commended on that.. doubt in her will only destroy what she has accomplished..
this is only my opinion...
i think you guys will be fine as long as you stay in the moment, and not think too far ahead.. he may never call again..
heard

Cole
The way you describe gabby is a lot like myself. I too have an extremely hard time being assertive and hurting someone's feelings. And that character trait has given me repeated problems with OM. I have broken it off and gone NC 4 times. And OM is relentless. He continues to try n contact me. I delete and ignore 99% of the time. But after 4 months of NC his latest txts were filled with love, raw feelings of pain and missing me and needing me and love songs. It broke me down. Because i couldn't bear to see another person in so much pain.

The difference is i have not told my H. I have mixed feelings about that. I did go to church and confess my adultery in the hopes that would give me strength. And it did somewhat. I do not want to jeopardize my M any more. I am in love w my H and have been figuring out the whys of my poor choice. I cant block his number bc the phone bill is in my H name and he would know i did it. I deleted his contact so now when he txts, just his number comes up. Not his name. It helps make it a little less personal for me. I am dealing with this on my own and with the help of my friends here.

The last few weeks since we started txting again I've been trying to let him down easy. But i can totally see your point about mixed signals. And i dont know if i have it in me to crush someone else. NOT because i want to engage in a relationship with OM again, but bc i cant hurt people. I actually thought i was being harsh when i told him monday, in another NC attempt, that my H and i are working things out and things are getting better. I cringed when i sent that to him bc i thought if someone were to tell me that, its clear to me that they've chosen their spouse.

You and Gabbi are a huge inspiration to me and i look forward to advice and input from you both. Im praying for you guys.

Cole and Gabi...
I didn't have a chance to read through all of your messages here but I know you both are strong people. And you will make it through this as you well know.
I think Gabi overall is such a caring individual (as obvious by both of you here on DS) that when faced with this phone call her immediate reaction was to help him. I'm sure somewhere about 10 seconds into the call she probably felt violated by the OM. Given Gabi's reactions I know she never would hurt Cole or want to rekindle anything with OM.
Because NC in my situation is very difficult given the dynamics of us...I want to ask this...did you ever prepare and talk about what could have happened if OM were to ever reach out to Gabi? Whether by phone, in person etc? Did you talk about not only NC in the immediate future but 20 months down the road? Did you think it was all behind you and that OM would not have reached out to you? Did you expect a phone call to come from OM?
I think this is all so very helpful for those of us going through NC and the very real likelihood that this could happen to any of us at some point.
Stay strong~ I know you two will :)

I agree that crushing pain is a necessary part of ending contact. And it's the part I remembee that keeps me from going back. As long as he and I were avoiding that pian we did keep it open. It was only after rage and punching and strangling that we finally looked at each other as enenies with nothing more to be said.

Thanks folks. I'll see if I can respond to the point, but I may miss some.

Redlegs, I acknowledge there is the possibility that he will change his history and mode of operation and actually never contact her again. But I seriously doubt it, even if he meant it. If he doesn't get a nasty email from me telling him she told me, he'll think she kept the secret and it will feel freer to call her again. He's had no history of keeping his word, and I think him telling her he won't call again was just a mental ploy to get her to talk to him, and nothing more. If he proves me wrong, great. But I fully expect this "success" from his perspective will embolden him to call again, sooner than later.

Heard4, I don't think this call erased all her hard work. I don't believe she *wants* to contact him or be with him. If so, she'd done that of her own accord a long time ago. She has worked hard, but this weakness in her could unravel all that as far as our marriage goes. This call demonstrates that she still can't tell a guy "no". I don't think she wants to cheat on me, but if she can't say no to someone who's pushed her buttons, what hope do I have that it won't happen again? The only way I can have something to hang my trust hat on is if she starts being willing to break other men's hearts rather than mine. Without trust, you don't have a relationship of any deep intimacy, you have a marriage with a cancerous growth.

I know she's done a lot. But bottom line is if all this work fails to prevent another affair, it will severely damage our marriage, my trust in her, and as far as our marriage goes, may well all be for nothing. Though I'm sure it will be of personal benefit to her. What would be fatal for either of us to do is to say, "Oh, that wasn't so bad," ignore the problem, sweep it under the rug, fail to deal with it, and wait for the next affair opportunity in hopes she'll somehow be able to veer away from it and not follow a pattern of interaction she's had all her life. If she takes it seriously, like I believe she's doing, and works to prevent that from happening, then when that next opportunity comes along, maybe she'll be prepared to break his heart instead of mine, and tell him "no." If she treated it like it was no big deal, as some are suggesting she do, that would be crushing to me. Because it says the problem will not be addressed, it will not be fixed, which means it will happen again, and again, and again. And I won't be able to deal with it. Her taking action to fix it at least gives me hope that it will be addressed and another affair avoided.

Notmyself, you said, "The difference is i have not told my H. I have mixed feelings about that. I did go to church and confess my adultery in the hopes that would give me strength. And it did somewhat. I do not want to jeopardize my M any more."

You may or may not know my thoughts on telling, but if not, here's my article on the subject:
http://www.dailystrength.org/groups/healing-infidelity-through-faith/news/view/4066000

My opinion is in most situations, not telling has more potential to harm the marriage than telling. It is the equivalent of a doctor knowing a patient has cancer but deciding not to tell them because it will upset them. But not telling prevents a full healing from taking place. Sure, you may not win the battle with cancer, but it will win if not admitted to and dealt with. Anyway...a little off topic, but relates to how Gabi has a problem not wanting to make someone feel bad even when it is the right thing to do. Like, if she had told me about the first OM and what had happened, there is a good chance it would have all ended there, and her online affairs and OM#2 wouldn't have ever happened. But she didn't and the cancer was allowed to grow, and more severely impact our marriage than it would have if dealt with earlier. Healing this isn't something you can do by yourself. And the only way to be free to seek all avenues of help is to bring it out into the open. IOW, be willing to disappoint your H to do what needs to be done to heal. Secrecy steals intimacy.

Hangon, you wrote a series of questions:

"did you ever prepare and talk about what could have happened if OM were to ever reach out to Gabi? Whether by phone, in person etc?"

Yes, many times, and I made it very clear she was to avoid engaging him in conversation. We discussed primarily about her running into him at the store as that seemed most likely. And that has actually happened a couple of times I'm aware of, but both times she had someone with her, me on one occasion and our oldest son on another. But both me and our priest emphasized to her the need to practice what to say so when the time came, it would be natural. She apparently failed to do that, actually thought more about what to say if she got the chance again. I should have checked in with her on that, but it slipped off both our radar screens.

"Did you talk about not only NC in the immediate future but 20 months down the road? Did you think it was all behind you and that OM would not have reached out to you? Did you expect a phone call to come from OM? "

We had the feeling he would likely make contact around two years out. He was cheated on by a wife some years back. They tried to rebuild, but around the two year mark it fell apart and they divorced. So we had a feeling he might decide to check and see how we were doing around that time in hopes ours would have the same fate. As to whether we expected a phone call or other form of contact, I didn't know exactly how he would do it, just that he probably would. I had hoped she'd prepared herself to do the right thing when it happened, but we obviously didn't. The only acceptable response for her to give him was along the lines of, "I don't want to talk to you. Please don't call me again." And then hang up. Because until he gets that message loud and clear, he won't consider it over.

I know most of you here are women, so it may not be readily apparent to you how a guy things. Like, when Gabi came to me at the very beginning of her affair with OM#1, and told me this guy was flirting with her via text, I told her she had to cut that off. She told me it was just for fun, nothing serious. I told her that's not what he's thinking. Flirting to him says you are available and ready and to keep trying. She didn't believe me that was how guys thought, and we all know where that went. But guys will put more weight on what you do and body language than what you say when it comes to romance and sex. We may suck reading between the lines in most other areas of life, but "I'm available" signals come through loud and clear. So when you say "no" but you continue sending the wrong signals, they'll believe the signals.

A key example. When Gabi tried to cut it off with OM#2, before they had sex the first time, she sat in a car and told him they couldn't continue where this was heading. At that point, if she was serious, even if they sat in her car, she should have left the vehicle. By not separating from him, she in fact told him, "I don't really want to stop." So instead, they kissed and it continued.

That's why I can almost guarantee that within two weeks of this last contact, he will try again. Because the signals I would have picked up if I were him from that phone conversation is, "She talked to me and agreed to hide it from her H! Therefore rebuilding must not be going as good as she says it is, and there may be a window of opportunity here." Especially if he has not totally gotten over his infatuation with her. When someone is like that, they ignore all negative signs and latch onto the positive ones with alligator jaws. The only thing that will really register with him is they talked behind my back, just like old times. He'll view that as progress. Not a reason to not contact her again.

We'll see if my prediction is true or not, and whether Gabi can cut off any hope of rekindling the flame at the knees or not.

I do want to take a moment to thank you all for your support of Gabi and I. We both appreciate it, and are a bit awed by some of your comments of praise. Just don't put us on too high a pedestal. I want to be able to survive any falls off the thing, should it happen.

I move that all pedestals in this vicinity be well supported so as to prevent any tipping and resulting injuries to the inhabitants of said pedestals :)

All in favor?

lol, Fiber. Of course, I'd be more worried about just slipping off or getting so out of whack I take a flying leap.

Fair enough. Then we'll just surround it with foamies or those giant trampolines for catching people who leap off flaming buildings :)

Lol fiber, you're the best.

I really like the way Cole explained the risk and the true nature of this discovery about my weakness in that long post. Of course some of it hurts to read but reading it gave me a little more clarity. I think I am going to print that and take it to the first counseling to make sure she doesn't minimize what the event actually shows. I know at face value it really doesn't look that bad until you delve in a little deeper. I think this is one of the major key issues that can make or break my reaction to future temptation.

I thought of an analogy today. I thought of this whole recovery process as being like a video game. One of those quest type video games where you roam about and conquer enemies and gather things you need to move on. In this game you have to gather keys. There are minor keys and major keys. Each key represents a new understanding about yourself, or your M, or your past, or your A's. Each key unlocks a level to explore and enemies to conquer and new keys to discover. I'm not sure if this game ever ends or if you just go on exploring and discovering and conquering. Whatever the case, This key may be a big one and I am ready to go forth and conquer these enemies and find some more keys. Just gotta make sure we don't get too comfortable on one level. We gotta keep exploring and conquering and finding those keys.

Your game sounds a lot like Life, you're either growing or dying. Or like a shark...you either keep moving forward or you drown.

I find this all very funny..was merely trying to give my honest opinion..
Maybe it's not wanted, so I won't waste my time explaining how all this sounds..
Heard

Just wanted to say that you are in my thoughts everyone, but I am feeling too crummy, too raw, to say much now. I had two really bad days right in a row and my strength is pretty gone at the moment.

Maybe this will help you Gabi. Ask yourself if talking to some other guy after all you and Your True Love have done to rebuild your marriage.

You two know I Love You Both!!!

you know what... i shouldnt be writing this, because its tending to fall on deaf ears in this post.. but here goes.
Gabi, this one is for you...you have done an extremely great job in the past 20 months with your M, and stopping an affair..and having NC.. you continue to be an inspiration to us for putting your marriage back together even after dday..however, affairs are like alcohol (can be additive) Alcoholics, just like cheaters have to figure these things out on their own, or their deemed to repeat their same mistakes again, and i can tell you dont want to do that.. YOU are the captain of your own ship, and only you can change your directions in life.... it may change temporarily, but for it to last, this must be something you do with every core of your being.. but with all that beings said, i hold YOU and only You responsible for changing your life around.. you may have received some words of guidance, and support, BUT you did this!! You deserve the credit, and no matter what anyone else says, you should be very happy in yourself for the way you reacted to a very unexpected circumstances.. dont eve let anyone, anywhere beat you down.. if YOU are not happy in your choices and you feel you did something wrong, then change it, and change it the next time, if there is a next time..but dont allow anyone else tell you how to behave..if your not fully on board with it..
you will be meeting your maker, alone, and nobody is gonna be there to whisper how your suppose to act...
once again, i commend you for doing the hard work to keep you marriage going, and being able to clear you mind enough to know what you want..
good for you...
heard

Heard, I appreciated your opinion. As I said, you are right, what happened didn't erase all the good work she has done, and I pointed out what she did right. This has nothing to do with beating her down because she didn't perform perfectly. But about identifying a weakness that could allow another affair in the door. If we ignore it and fail to deal with it, that is called rug sweeping, and could be fatal to the marriage down the line. I'd rather we deal with it now over a surprise phone call than another affair. We both don't want to leave these kinds of things to chance, but if we can take proactive measures to strengthen our marriage, we should.

I'm very glad for all the work Gabi has put into this relationship. If she hadn't, we might not be here happily married right now, but either miserable or divorced. I owe a lot to her fearlessly facing her demons and dealing with them, and working on herself. She stared her guilt in the face and wrestled with it, instead of hiding from it like many do. Since dday, she has proved her love to me by doing the hard things to rebuild. None of that is lost by what happened. Only identifying a weakness that still needs to be dealt with, treating it for what it is, a threat to sabotage all the work she and I have been doing, and dealing with it in the most productive way possible. And in keeping with her history since dday, she is taking this seriously and fighting it head on, proactively.

But my fears are real. I appreciate your opinion and agreed with much of it, but my opinion is that this weakness is something we need to deal with seriously. It has the potential of destroying all our work if left to "nature." She wants to fix this as much as I do. But seriously, thank you for your support and opinions. I do need to make sure she doesn't feel like I'm beating her up over this, or not appreciative of all she's done.

Tantric, I am so sorry you are having such a hard time. :'-( Would a flower help? @}>-- Get better.

Thank you heard, I hear you. In the early months after Dday, I was in such a bad way. I could not trust my own judgement at that time. I relied heavily on my H and counselor and priest. Luckily, they were all telling me the same things so how could I argue with that? The priest and counselor had never met and did not know what the other was telling me. They steered me right. I trust them. (No counselor now though until I see this new one)

That being said, I have used my own mind the whole time. I have spent countless hours praying and processing and working things out in my mind. I feel like I could have filled a lake with my tears these past 21 mos. (20 mos of NC) I was desperate to do what was necessary to heal and help my H. By the time I first saw lists of what the CS must do, I had them all under my belt. Every single one. On my own. Just following my heart. So you are right about me being the one responsible for my healing and consequently helping my H heal also. Nobody could have done that for me. Sometimes, honestly, through such deep despair, I don't know where I found the strength. I didn't know somebody could hurt so bad and keep on functioning. But I did. Never missed a day of work and kept on going, acting like all was well to most of the world while I was completely broken inside.

I will reassure you of one thing. The two men that are helping me the most, my H and my priest, are helping me in love and compassion. My priest is tough and demanding with a spirit of love and helping me heal. His focus is, of course, on my spiritual healing. My H has been nothing but amazing in his support and love that never wanes. I honestly don't know how he has done this from day one. He is a rock. They are tough sometimes, that is they can draw a hard line when they feel they need to. I absolutely accept that.

Cole and I are in agreement with you that I am the one who must cut it off. It's up to me. Cole is done helping me end contact with him. If it comes from me, and I truly mean what I say, it will be more likely to stick. I think we are just scared of me not conquering the weaknesses that led me to have my A's to begin with. A relapse is unthinkable, either with OM#2 or any other man, but I have to respect the possiblility if I am to build any measure of safety against it.

I know what I want though. I want to have NC, because contact sets me back and leaves me very unsettled, It will also keep OM from healing and moving on. I want to continue to heal and grow as a person, I want to meet Cole's needs, as he has been learning to meet mine, and continue to show him how much I love him and how dedicated I am to "us" and our future together. I want to be faithful and diligent and stay strong.