Cheaters and Betrayeds Helping Each Other Community Group
This is a group where cheaters and betrayeds can come to try to help each other better understand infidelity from the perspective of the other side because understanding can often lead to healing. Members can ask each other questions, share experiences, and provide insights and opinions without judgments or animosity. If you have a chip on your shoulder, an axe to grind,...
I've been "chewing" on something for a couple of days now. I know most of the CSs know what they are doing is wrong, even the ones in the middle of an existing affair seem to admit that. At least with the idea of, "...so no need to tell me I'm doing something bad, I already know that and it won't be helpful."
But in one fashion or another, that fact appears to be overridden by a feeling of love or passionate emotional attachment that seems to justify or nullify the wrongness of what is being done. Sort of a, "I can't help myself." I know in the midst of Gabi's As she felt like she couldn't avoid it. She didn't want to hurt me, but she did anyway. She knew it was wrong, yet couldn't bring herself to end it. And I see a lot of CSs in the same boat.
So I was asking myself why the violation of vows and treating another person, in this case one's spouse, gets trumped by this feeling of "love"? (Translated: infatuation) Or even one's own well being? One CS posted yesterday on CA, I believe, that they know their OM will hurt them again...but she loved him. To quote Spock, that is highly illogical.
It dawned on me where else you see this type of behavior. Addiction. One doesn't even have to become an addict to experience an addictive behavior. Addicts are created by long-term submission to an addiction. But anything that can cause a person to abandon reason for the "love" of something can be an addictive stimulus/response loop that, if it goes on long enough, can create an addict.
For instance, there is a gambling addiction, where someone will put as risk their life savings, kids college savings, mortgage, for their love of gambling. There are all sorts of drugs and alcohol where a person is willing to risk their careers, family, financial ruin, for the love of that substance.
In any addiction, it is the overwhelming desire for how someone or something is making you feel, that causes one to move that desire to the top of the decision hierarchy, for which nothing else can trump. So no matter how wrong it is, the feeling of love, the desire to feel a certain way, overrides any consideration for the harm a person is doing to themselves, their spouse, or their kids.
Not all CSs or APs feel what they are doing is wrong, at least they've convinced themselves of that on some level. Some are so narcissistic, or due to values formed growing up, see sex and intimacy outside of marriage as okay, maybe even their right. That's a different set of issues.
But for the many CSs and APs who who are so obsessed with their AP that they can't stop thinking about them, find themselves willing to risk their marriage and healthy family for the kids on satisfying this desire, have you ever thought about the fact that this is an addictive behavior and sought help to treat it as such?
It seems there are two main barriers to doing so.
1. Not acknowledging the addictive nature of the feeling they receive from their AP, even though the facts are staring them in the face: previous strongly held values are discarded in favor of obtaining this feeling. Classic signs of an addiction, right out of the textbook.
2. Not seeking out and applying addictive treatments to the situation, for a number of reasons, but a common one is because their spouse doesn't know and to get serious help would require telling. So often they are "going it alone," and few are those who can defeat their own addiction by sheer will power. It can happen, but rarely are root causes dealt with in the process. But usually, that method is about as effective as an alcoholic sitting in a bar, doing their best not to take a drink.
So I'm beginning to think when it comes to these situations, like Gabi was in, while not clinically an addict, perhaps, the best chance of dealing with this is an AA style treatment not only to get things back in order, but to prevent one from becoming an addict through long-term addictive behaviors.
And at least, if one hears love being given as the reason to cheat, put at risk one's marriage and children, it should be a clear signal this is an addictive behavior, and acknowledge that reality. As they say, the first step to healing is admitting you need it and can't help yourself.
Thoughts?
But in one fashion or another, that fact appears to be overridden by a feeling of love or passionate emotional attachment that seems to justify or nullify the wrongness of what is being done. Sort of a, "I can't help myself." I know in the midst of Gabi's As she felt like she couldn't avoid it. She didn't want to hurt me, but she did anyway. She knew it was wrong, yet couldn't bring herself to end it. And I see a lot of CSs in the same boat.
So I was asking myself why the violation of vows and treating another person, in this case one's spouse, gets trumped by this feeling of "love"? (Translated: infatuation) Or even one's own well being? One CS posted yesterday on CA, I believe, that they know their OM will hurt them again...but she loved him. To quote Spock, that is highly illogical.
It dawned on me where else you see this type of behavior. Addiction. One doesn't even have to become an addict to experience an addictive behavior. Addicts are created by long-term submission to an addiction. But anything that can cause a person to abandon reason for the "love" of something can be an addictive stimulus/response loop that, if it goes on long enough, can create an addict.
For instance, there is a gambling addiction, where someone will put as risk their life savings, kids college savings, mortgage, for their love of gambling. There are all sorts of drugs and alcohol where a person is willing to risk their careers, family, financial ruin, for the love of that substance.
In any addiction, it is the overwhelming desire for how someone or something is making you feel, that causes one to move that desire to the top of the decision hierarchy, for which nothing else can trump. So no matter how wrong it is, the feeling of love, the desire to feel a certain way, overrides any consideration for the harm a person is doing to themselves, their spouse, or their kids.
Not all CSs or APs feel what they are doing is wrong, at least they've convinced themselves of that on some level. Some are so narcissistic, or due to values formed growing up, see sex and intimacy outside of marriage as okay, maybe even their right. That's a different set of issues.
But for the many CSs and APs who who are so obsessed with their AP that they can't stop thinking about them, find themselves willing to risk their marriage and healthy family for the kids on satisfying this desire, have you ever thought about the fact that this is an addictive behavior and sought help to treat it as such?
It seems there are two main barriers to doing so.
1. Not acknowledging the addictive nature of the feeling they receive from their AP, even though the facts are staring them in the face: previous strongly held values are discarded in favor of obtaining this feeling. Classic signs of an addiction, right out of the textbook.
2. Not seeking out and applying addictive treatments to the situation, for a number of reasons, but a common one is because their spouse doesn't know and to get serious help would require telling. So often they are "going it alone," and few are those who can defeat their own addiction by sheer will power. It can happen, but rarely are root causes dealt with in the process. But usually, that method is about as effective as an alcoholic sitting in a bar, doing their best not to take a drink.
So I'm beginning to think when it comes to these situations, like Gabi was in, while not clinically an addict, perhaps, the best chance of dealing with this is an AA style treatment not only to get things back in order, but to prevent one from becoming an addict through long-term addictive behaviors.
And at least, if one hears love being given as the reason to cheat, put at risk one's marriage and children, it should be a clear signal this is an addictive behavior, and acknowledge that reality. As they say, the first step to healing is admitting you need it and can't help yourself.
Thoughts?
So, what if a spouse is living in an emotional wasteland, getting no support or understanding from the other spouse? Where does one draw the line between the unhealthy, entitled selfishness and the this-is-what-must-happen-to-be-whole "selfishness?" And what if it is not realistic to consider separation from the spouse? How, then, can one seek wholeness out of a situation that is not "whole?" I'm not using this to justify having an A, but rather to look at it from another side. What we have talked about here are situations where the BS is basically the good, responsible person and the CS is just looking for the high?
My H was willing to take whaatever scraps I offered. The sad thing was that I realized e emtualy that my scraps where not enough if I wanted a fulfillig marriage. It was clear that I would have to swalow my pride let down a few (not all) of my walls and begin to work my end of the partnership.
Marriage is an uphill battle even without in dc idelity. Add that and you have moint everest. If we spend the climb worryinf aboit how impossible it is rather than looking at jow we will progress towards our goal, we will likely fInd ourselves stuck somwhere in the middle frozen with fear.
I'm sorry that you are not gaining what what you need here at ds, many people don't. But to say you get no support is offensive to the very many of us who have offered our thought, words and ideas of how you might want to proceed. Support cannot be custom ordered as you want. Support comes in all shapes and sizes. I think you are seeing only the negative which often comes out during a point where people are attempting to help you or your H and we get bitten and dismissed as not knowing either you, therefor our advice is angrily rejected and deemed useless.
I hope that you can step back and a see how some of this has played out. It is very clear that your pain is crippling and that with the years of loss and abuse you suffered, youve created a very deep connection you your H. He was your personal savior in a sense and his betrayal took all of that away.
But the part of not fully knowing you, that goes for everybody on this board. I learn new things about people here every day. There is so much that most don't know or understand about me either. My H spent 10 years lying about his 3 year A and oc. So many details about who I am my upbringing and our lives together that shape my experience.
Often times advice offered is based solely on the extent at which we do know members based on their words. I do hope that (along with traditional therapy), you decide to take the proper steps to heal yourselves and hopefully your marriage. dS just may not be the right place for either of you if you feel the support you have been given is not supportive to your needs. If you change your mind, stick around and maybe you will find that support you are seeking.
Pink
No one ever said this!!!! Or anything even remotely close to it.
She's posts may be raw, but being with her constantly I can tell you that absolutely NEVER is there any malicious intent. I think it's part of our (CS) penance that we must show all BS's a little more compassion and allow the hurt laden rants. We, after all, are the cause of that hurt.
I'm not on or part of any crusade. I speak from me. I am an individual. If I like or dislike something said I may respond to it based on my feelings. If somebody I've grown to be fond of gets bashed I may come to their defense. That is me. Sometimes my support comes in the form of "oh how horrible it is to be cheated on" and sometimes it comes in the form of "pick yourself up dust yourself off and look to making things better". That's me.
Anyway, I will now step away from this thread and give one last bit of advice. That is to set your personal journals to private. It prevents unwanted advice and reactions. I've set my entries to either friends only and a few are private.
Best of luck to both of you while you persist in hanging up to alienate everyone who tries to help.