Cheaters and Betrayeds Helping Each Other Community Group
This is a group where cheaters and betrayeds can come to try to help each other better understand infidelity from the perspective of the other side because understanding can often lead to healing. Members can ask each other questions, share experiences, and provide insights and opinions without judgments or animosity. If you have a chip on your shoulder, an axe to grind,...
I've been "chewing" on something for a couple of days now. I know most of the CSs know what they are doing is wrong, even the ones in the middle of an existing affair seem to admit that. At least with the idea of, "...so no need to tell me I'm doing something bad, I already know that and it won't be helpful."
But in one fashion or another, that fact appears to be overridden by a feeling of love or passionate emotional attachment that seems to justify or nullify the wrongness of what is being done. Sort of a, "I can't help myself." I know in the midst of Gabi's As she felt like she couldn't avoid it. She didn't want to hurt me, but she did anyway. She knew it was wrong, yet couldn't bring herself to end it. And I see a lot of CSs in the same boat.
So I was asking myself why the violation of vows and treating another person, in this case one's spouse, gets trumped by this feeling of "love"? (Translated: infatuation) Or even one's own well being? One CS posted yesterday on CA, I believe, that they know their OM will hurt them again...but she loved him. To quote Spock, that is highly illogical.
It dawned on me where else you see this type of behavior. Addiction. One doesn't even have to become an addict to experience an addictive behavior. Addicts are created by long-term submission to an addiction. But anything that can cause a person to abandon reason for the "love" of something can be an addictive stimulus/response loop that, if it goes on long enough, can create an addict.
For instance, there is a gambling addiction, where someone will put as risk their life savings, kids college savings, mortgage, for their love of gambling. There are all sorts of drugs and alcohol where a person is willing to risk their careers, family, financial ruin, for the love of that substance.
In any addiction, it is the overwhelming desire for how someone or something is making you feel, that causes one to move that desire to the top of the decision hierarchy, for which nothing else can trump. So no matter how wrong it is, the feeling of love, the desire to feel a certain way, overrides any consideration for the harm a person is doing to themselves, their spouse, or their kids.
Not all CSs or APs feel what they are doing is wrong, at least they've convinced themselves of that on some level. Some are so narcissistic, or due to values formed growing up, see sex and intimacy outside of marriage as okay, maybe even their right. That's a different set of issues.
But for the many CSs and APs who who are so obsessed with their AP that they can't stop thinking about them, find themselves willing to risk their marriage and healthy family for the kids on satisfying this desire, have you ever thought about the fact that this is an addictive behavior and sought help to treat it as such?
It seems there are two main barriers to doing so.
1. Not acknowledging the addictive nature of the feeling they receive from their AP, even though the facts are staring them in the face: previous strongly held values are discarded in favor of obtaining this feeling. Classic signs of an addiction, right out of the textbook.
2. Not seeking out and applying addictive treatments to the situation, for a number of reasons, but a common one is because their spouse doesn't know and to get serious help would require telling. So often they are "going it alone," and few are those who can defeat their own addiction by sheer will power. It can happen, but rarely are root causes dealt with in the process. But usually, that method is about as effective as an alcoholic sitting in a bar, doing their best not to take a drink.
So I'm beginning to think when it comes to these situations, like Gabi was in, while not clinically an addict, perhaps, the best chance of dealing with this is an AA style treatment not only to get things back in order, but to prevent one from becoming an addict through long-term addictive behaviors.
And at least, if one hears love being given as the reason to cheat, put at risk one's marriage and children, it should be a clear signal this is an addictive behavior, and acknowledge that reality. As they say, the first step to healing is admitting you need it and can't help yourself.
Thoughts?
But in one fashion or another, that fact appears to be overridden by a feeling of love or passionate emotional attachment that seems to justify or nullify the wrongness of what is being done. Sort of a, "I can't help myself." I know in the midst of Gabi's As she felt like she couldn't avoid it. She didn't want to hurt me, but she did anyway. She knew it was wrong, yet couldn't bring herself to end it. And I see a lot of CSs in the same boat.
So I was asking myself why the violation of vows and treating another person, in this case one's spouse, gets trumped by this feeling of "love"? (Translated: infatuation) Or even one's own well being? One CS posted yesterday on CA, I believe, that they know their OM will hurt them again...but she loved him. To quote Spock, that is highly illogical.
It dawned on me where else you see this type of behavior. Addiction. One doesn't even have to become an addict to experience an addictive behavior. Addicts are created by long-term submission to an addiction. But anything that can cause a person to abandon reason for the "love" of something can be an addictive stimulus/response loop that, if it goes on long enough, can create an addict.
For instance, there is a gambling addiction, where someone will put as risk their life savings, kids college savings, mortgage, for their love of gambling. There are all sorts of drugs and alcohol where a person is willing to risk their careers, family, financial ruin, for the love of that substance.
In any addiction, it is the overwhelming desire for how someone or something is making you feel, that causes one to move that desire to the top of the decision hierarchy, for which nothing else can trump. So no matter how wrong it is, the feeling of love, the desire to feel a certain way, overrides any consideration for the harm a person is doing to themselves, their spouse, or their kids.
Not all CSs or APs feel what they are doing is wrong, at least they've convinced themselves of that on some level. Some are so narcissistic, or due to values formed growing up, see sex and intimacy outside of marriage as okay, maybe even their right. That's a different set of issues.
But for the many CSs and APs who who are so obsessed with their AP that they can't stop thinking about them, find themselves willing to risk their marriage and healthy family for the kids on satisfying this desire, have you ever thought about the fact that this is an addictive behavior and sought help to treat it as such?
It seems there are two main barriers to doing so.
1. Not acknowledging the addictive nature of the feeling they receive from their AP, even though the facts are staring them in the face: previous strongly held values are discarded in favor of obtaining this feeling. Classic signs of an addiction, right out of the textbook.
2. Not seeking out and applying addictive treatments to the situation, for a number of reasons, but a common one is because their spouse doesn't know and to get serious help would require telling. So often they are "going it alone," and few are those who can defeat their own addiction by sheer will power. It can happen, but rarely are root causes dealt with in the process. But usually, that method is about as effective as an alcoholic sitting in a bar, doing their best not to take a drink.
So I'm beginning to think when it comes to these situations, like Gabi was in, while not clinically an addict, perhaps, the best chance of dealing with this is an AA style treatment not only to get things back in order, but to prevent one from becoming an addict through long-term addictive behaviors.
And at least, if one hears love being given as the reason to cheat, put at risk one's marriage and children, it should be a clear signal this is an addictive behavior, and acknowledge that reality. As they say, the first step to healing is admitting you need it and can't help yourself.
Thoughts?
Here are the DSM criteria:
A) A distinct period of abnormally and persistently elevated, expansive or irritable mood, lasting at least 1 week (or any duration if hospitalization is necessary)
B) During the period of mood disturbance, three (or more) of the following symptoms have persisted (four if the mood is only irritable) and have been present to a significant degree:
1) inflated self-esteem or grandiosity
2) decreased need for sleep (e.g., feels rested after only 3 hours of sleep)
3) more talkative than usual or pressure to keep talking
4) flight of ideas or subjective experience that thoughts are racing
5) distractibility (i.e., attention too easily drawn to unimportant or irrelevant external stimuli)
6) increase in goal-directed activity (at work, at school, or sexually) or psychomotor agitation
7) excessive involvement in pleasurable activities that have a high potential for painful consequences (e.g., engaging in unrestrained buying sprees, sexual indiscretions, or foolish business investments)
So, yes I think it is very "addictive" as its cuing a psychological reaction that needs more stimuli to sustain. It is not a state that is the opposite of depressed or is a euthymic, happy mood state. It is a high that is really unsustainable.
Yes, you definitely want some of those feelings there when you start a relationship, and you want to continue to work on those feelings and passion, but that is not what you read when you read about "mature love".
But once you start feeding those "love" feelings which are really more lust, limerance, and obsession, then mature love bores in comparison.
But I think one mistake people make, is the power of those feelings and the need to go back again and again comes from some issue inside the person needing to be addressed, and not the object of the affection.
Radical case in point to illustrate. Fans that become obsessive about a star. The obsession and powerful feelings about that star are 100% within the person as they have never even met the person. It is some internal need that drives that, not the person.
AA is a great treatment for alcohol addiction. It stops the behavior and gives support. However, many in the field talk about 1 year being the significant turning point because once the addictive behavior stops being the primary focus, then the clinical depression and underlying issues can finally be looked at and worked on. When in the midst of the addictive behavior, you can't deal with the underlying issues driving the addiction because the psychological and physiological addiction is too strong and demands all of the attention a person can give.
Strong people think they can sneak up on the edge without going over. Then they slip into the grip of something much bigger than they expect. The edge is voluntary; the abyss, not so much. Then shame over having been fools enough to approach the edge leads to minimizing, justifying or denial
Hole? What hole? Oh, you say I've fallen in a hole? Well, yes but it's fine. I like it here. I meant to do this. Up there in the fresh air and sunshine was way too bright.
I feel so high right now. The OM and I are in a good place. (kinda) I feel confident about his feelings for me and it just makes you feel so good. It's amazing how that feeling can just lift you up and make you feel like you can do anything. (Conversely it can drag you down and make you feel like hell). No wonder we do such crazy things, looking for that high, huh? I am going to ride it for the moment!
Getting frustrating again. I'll have to bow out again for. Couple of weeks and see if it turns. I'm in a great place in my marriage. We work very hard at us and I know it's possible but those in this addictive state don't see that possibility in their situations.
"What turned me into a serial cheater!
Posted on 04/10/13, 04:59 pm
What an eye opener! While I am a serial cheater, it is just a symptom of my REAL problem. I finally found an explanation for me. I am a Love and attention addict. Everyone knows the "high" of falling in love. The rush that comes from the new and exciting. Most people can experience it, enjoy it and move on. I crave it - always. Wanting to feel that rush is ALWAYS at the forefront of my semi-conscience thought process.
I'm also an attention addict. At least in so much as my primary love language is "words of Affirmation" When I receive words of praise and adulation, that is when I feel loved. That also is how I show my love.
The excitement of a new relationship or new love fades and things get routine. Each time my life became routine; high school, early relationships, first marriage, second marriage I would start turning my head and diverting my eyes looking elsewhere for the "high". It's starts innocent enough - new job, new hobby, etc. But what happens when that doesn't provide?
I had a job that I traveled, saw different customers, different cities and faced different situations each day, bit even that seemed routine. When the job has become easy and routine there is little reward in terms of "good job!" Once you're known to be very good at something, praise for doing it well is greatly diminished. You don't praise the mailman for completing his route everyday. Of course he completes it, that's his job.
My marriage was like millions others. Daily chores and responsibilities - routine. Lets face it, praise and adulation for surviving the routines of day to day life are not only not offered, they're not deserved.
I have several minor hobbies. Deer Hunting which consists of climbing into a tree stand at dawn waiting about 45 minutes and shooting the first harvestable deer that crosses my path. my yearly allotment. Hardly the master hunter tracker. I hunt for meat not trophy, so I'll never be on the cover of Field and Stream. And sense I'm the only one in the family that eats venison, there is no praise for providing the very healthy alternative to grocery store, hormone injected beef. I used to have a sailboat on Lake Michigan. Sailing gave me the thrill of "controlling the wind" and people were generally impressed with it. It was a double hit on the "high". But once we moved to Kentucky the sailboat had to go. I replaced it with a canoe... I don't guess I need to explain that the thrill of controlling nature or the impression made was NOT up to the standards of sailing. I then found another hobby I really enjoyed that provided the thrill and adulation - Acting. It supplied me with some of the attention and adulation, but my opportunities for acting were sporadic at best. So it wasn't as fulfilling as I craved.
My entire life I have been searching to fill that love, attention, adulation, affirmation desire. With a lifetime of "searching" came a lifetime of developing (bad) habits to temporarily meet those desires.
Now lets throw one more wrench into the works. I love women. All shapes, sizes, colors. I love talking to women and being around them. All I need is a pretty face and I'm drawn in.
My present marriage was the closest I'd ever come to being truly fulfilled. Love, adulation, looks, intelligence, etc. My wife was (is) the whole package. And someplace deep down I knew that it was more than I'd ever deserve. But even with that, my selfish, surface self went searching again when everything became routine. And I ruined the lives of several people the least of all is mine. I can handle screwing up my own life, but ruining others' is indefensible.
Now that I know why I search I have to figure out what to do about it. Alcoholics can avoid alcohol. Drug addicts can avoid drugs. How do I avoid relationships? How do I avoid pretty faces? How do I avoid conversations? Obviously avoidance is not an option for me."
I HEAR "you're worthless, you'll never change, you're a lost cause."
I can't make up for past wrongs unless I first understand why and how I did what I did. I'm not trying to force you to let me go. But when my heart hears that you think I'm a lost cause... I do get an overwhelming feeling of "what's the point?"