this simply is scary....dad probably needs his meds again and I do not want to say the BIL is an idiot but can I say that anyway?

I am a firm believer that homeopathic medicine is insanely stupid and should be outlawed. Products should be rounded up and disposed of. WTH, their products are mostly inert material anyway.

The notion that substances can be diluted down to unmeasurable levels and still have medicinal value offends me to the depth of my sole.

And I'm just getting started!

The notion that water molecules retain memory of the substances that they were in contact with is down there with the concept that the moon is made of green cheese.

Better stop now.

OK, you get my drift.

So have your DH talk to his brother. If it were my father who's life was at stake I would try reason with my brother, much like your suggestion that he go to the doctor with your DH. If he resists then I would go to court and get a restraining order against him, keeping him OUT of my father's medical decisions, and if necessary restrict him to infrequent supervised visits.

The best that scientists have been able to say for homeopathic treatments is that it is a glorified form of placebo treatment. Obviously your father is in the worst case side of the issue; he has been avoiding the use of treatments that have a track record of actually helping conditions based on scientific studies.

Homeopathic medicine fails real testing, here is a link.

https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/homeopathy-failing-randomized-controlled-trials-since-1835/

OK, off my soap box!

OY!!!! I feel your pain.

I have to give a shout out here about stents.
My mom has a stent put in in another state. She went to get an MRI and they almost canceled at the last moment becuz she is not carrying a card.....I think she tossed it.
Apparently, stents are made of different materials that interfere with MRI's and probably CAT scans. They set the machines according to the materials used in making the stents and if they do not know which material is used, it can cause death by burning or explosion. I thought a stent is a stent, but I guess not.

My mom went through nursing training, but never did her state boards.....that was back in 1957.....she thinks she knows it all (rolling eyes) even though she admits that medicine has changed....(duh). However, she insists it go back to the way it was and she evidently knows more than the doctors and an aspirin is the cure all!

I have seen people get better with homeopathy and I have seen traditional medicine make a lot of people sick or dead.

So I am one the fence. But if FIL wants to try something different it should be his call, No?

And if small amounts of different things don't work why are allergy shots helping so many people?

Years ago nobody believed in chiropractors. Now almost everybody gets body work done.

Anyway will be interesting to see how the next appointment goes.

I'm not talking small amounts. I am talking insanely small amounts.

As in zero.

That's right, zero!

Homeopathy uses dilutions. A product that is marked as 40X has been diluted 10-1 a total of 40 times. That means that to consume ONE MOLECULE of the original substance that has been diluted that much you would have to drink a total of

170,000,000,000,000 gallons of the substance.

All that for one molecule of the original substance!

That is more than the total amount of water in 200,000,000 Olympic sized swimming pools.

Allergy shots are small amounts, but the amount of the allergen in the shot is measurable. Something that has been diluted by 40X is not measurable by science.

I maintain that the only real good that comes from homeopathy is the placebo effect; people believe that it will work, and they adopt a positive mental attitude which in turn allows the body to heal faster. Or at least it makes people believe that they heal faster.

This is OK to do for tummy aches, but for serious heart issues? And it sounds like PD's FIL had homeopathy sprung on him in such a way that he was not able to make an informed decision about the relative merits of both courses of action.

I do like the concept of holistic medicine. Any approach that takes the entire life system of a patient into account has got to be better than one where somebody prescribes a very specific medicine with a limited view of the person's total state of health.

But I do agree, the next appointment will be interesting!

I studied herbal medicine for years. As far as I know, there is no reason why he couldn't stay on his meds and have all the garlic in the world. He would stink, but he wouldn't catch any colds or flu! (plus no one would get near enough to sneeze on him). And ginko? any reasonable dose would still be ok.
dad should have talked to his doctors first.

as to brother in law? how about practicing medicine without a license? He yelled because he was questioned. And now, dad is not feeling well....guilt?
yeah, let the cards fall...I thought your suggestion was brilliant. Why have dad get yelled at alone at the doctors...have the "family doctor" come along.
And good news, your husband is backing you.
Geeze. (I don't like homeopathic either)

Dad not feeling well could have been for any number of reasons. He is old and sick.

Pepper, I couldn't agree with you more. Hahnemann is right up there beside Freud. They have some historical value considering the treatments back in their day for both physical and mental treatment but have absolutely no place in today's society. Unfortunately, my BIL believes in them both. And, there in lies the rub. My FIL goes along with whatever his sons tell him to do. I think my BIL is a dangerous influence but again, it's not my family so the norm is I don't interfere with his family issues, he doesn't get involved with mine. It was completely irresponsible to take someone off of prescribed medication and place them on nothing more than a water memory theory. For the last 4 months my FIL has not had one INR test so the VA called him and told him he had to come in for one. Now he's panicked because, well, he knows what's coming. My husband and BIL will both go Friday for the dr. visit. Hubby wants to ensure nothing is left uncovered.

We noticed FIL's shakey hands Saturday also and when we asked him how long that's been going on, he said probably over the last year but he attributes it to his arthritis. I told him that's a big fat NO on that one and that has to get addressed at this appointment. We don't visit my FIL half as much as the two younger brothers and why neither of them have noticed this symptom is beyond me. Hubby is now feeling a bit guilty for not taking the time to visit his father more often. That's another story for another day.

For now, we're going to wait for the dr. visit and see what comes out of that. He's a VA doctor so I don't think he'll take the stance that if my FIL doesn't go along with his treatment he'll dismiss him as a patient. Not sure though, that could very well happen.

I don't understand the BIL though, what a self centered decision.

Time will tell...

Well I thought your suggestion was the most mature and should be carried out! I pray your FIL is okay! Please let us know the outcome? Hugs GB

I agree with Pepper. If a person is seeing a reputable doctor and doing well, your BIL should get off his high horse and not try to take charge of things he knows nothing about. I'm not saying that sometimes homeopathic things don't work, but I think a licensed practitioner should prescribe them, not a family member who wants to stroke his own ego and feel important.

A lot of doctors are more willing now to work together with other practitioners. But Brother seems like a bit of a bully who does not want to compromise! UGH!

Sure hope you can come up with a plan that everybody can live with

I hadn't had time to get out here earlier today but the dr's meeting took place this morning with FIL, DH and BIL all in attendance. From what DH told me, it didn't go well for my BIL. The VA Doctor was not at all happy about his patient being taken off of the Warfarin and to make things short my FIL was given an ultimatum that as long as he intended to stay under this physicians care, he would go back on the Warfarin. If my FIL decided not to do that and continue with my BIL's treatment program, my FIL would need to find another doctor. Plain and simple, I guess! I haven't been able to talk extensively with DH on everything that was said because from what I heard there was a very heated conversation between the doctor and my BIL... The VA doctor is also referring my FIL to a Neurologist for the tremors. Apparently, his symptoms lean towards Parkinsons which won't be a good thing.

I'm just happy that he's going back on the proper treatment and getting further testing.

Not sure how the BIL feels right now but I don't really care. Self Appointed Know-It Alls, I can't stand. Treat yourself, not others with your hair-brained potions!

Thank you for the update!

And a huge RIGHT ON to the doctor.

Glad you got the matter resolved Your poor FIL must feel like a punching bag! As for the bully.... I'm with you. Who cares?

I sure hope it is not Parkinson's. That is a very bad deal!

Thank you guys, I rarely complain about family because they're family and don't we all have our issues with them at times? I know I do.

I fully suspect, although I can't prove it that BIL is the cause of my SIL's breast cancer returning and having to undergo a double mastectomy a few years ago. Initially, her first round of breast cancer was radiation treatment only along with some medications that she was supposed to take for an extended period of time as a followup to the radiation. I firmly believe that he took her off those medications and put her on his own treatment plan. I knew it the day she called me to tell me the cancer returned and tests showed she would need the mastectomy. Of course, I could be wrong but I remember when she was diagnosed again that the doctor was shocked that her cancer had returned. I never asked her because that's crossing boundaries and it's probably not very nice of me to suspect the very worst but I think this problem with my FIL pretty much solidifies my suspicions. So glad I married his brother and not him! Aggghhhhhhh