Talk about a hijacked thread.

Cerri, Barney it has nothing to do with behavior, ceremony or anything else we do. It has to do with the love & grace of God. He came, not as an enlightened man, or a great prophet, or teacher. He claimed to be God, Jehovah, the Messiah of the Jews, did things only God can do, claimed things only God can claim. He was either what he claimed or he was the most evil liar the world has ever known or, maybe, one who was hopelessly insane. He was sent not to teach, or show the way, but to sacrifice himself physically to redeem the world (as he had already done in the spiritual Realm before the creation of the world). His death & resurrection (for which there is as much historical evidence as there is for the lives of Caesar, Buddha, or Mohammed) redeemed the entire world. When he said that "no man can come to the father but through me" THAT is what he meant.

We are left with one of two choices believe he is who he said he was or condemn him for a heretic. The Jewish leaders who had him crucified made the only choice they. could based on their interpretation of the evidence. THEY had no doubt that he claimed to be God, which they considered to be the greatest possible blasphemy, worthy of the greatest punishment, so they had him crucified, which was their proper response (and the plan all along). Every prophecy and ceremony of the Jewish sacrificial system pointed to the crucifixion of Jesus Christ.

His sacrifice provided the only means of being in relationship with God. I don't really know if you have to choose to accept it to recieve the benenfit of that great gift, (I choose to and it has made a huge diference in my life), but if you have a relationship with God IT is the reason that you can. I don't claim to have all knowledge in this and I sincerely hope that God does exercise complete control and that everyone is redeemed whether they accept the deity and sacrifice of Christ or not (that would include my Pagan Priest brother), but I have seen to many people who believed that died speaking in joy of what they see, and too many who denied belief who have died in abject terror.

So to answer your question Barney, the honest thief who accepts the gift of grace at the last minute wlii definitely be in paradise on equal terms with the Sunday believer. In fact he will definitely be ahead of the "Sunday believer" that trusts in the law or his own richeousness and never really accepts Christ. If he doesn't then it becomes my Father God's option. HE is the KING, HE is in control, I won't dispute his choice, but will rejoice if I find that all have been included whether they belived or not, knowing that I've been a better man because of HIS impact in my life and because of my belief. The Bible teaches, after all that Christ died for the sins of the sins of the world and that all of it, everything depends on and is about Christ (John, Ephesians, Colosians).

However, I will not teach that on the off chance that our choices make a differnce in God's will. It is possible that if you choose not to recieve you get no benefit of the gift (just like choosing not to recieve a gift of a million dollars leaves you in poverty) It will make no difference in how I relate to you (I love my Pagen brother every bit as much as I love my sister that is a Presbyterian Pastor). Christ said that his followers will be known by the presence of His love for others in their lives and I pray for that to be my legacy.

Its not in the bible and it's basically Pentacostal made up cultish B.S. The word rapture does not appear in the bible and was made up by some crazy english man in the 1850s. The planet survived WW II and that I think would have been the nearest the planet has gotten to armagedon. My in-laws are all into this nonsense and I think thats part of the reason why my stbx is so messed up. Stbx tried going back to their church but it gave her nightmares. Nothing in the gospels about it and the last book of the old testament was written long after most of the other books. It is also suggested the books was actually talking about the fall of the Roman empire and not the end of the planet as we know it.

I think it will be something - no the biblical rapture - but the Earth Rapture that will get us - People hating people because they smoke, drink, gay, obese, religion and on and on. The planet is also warming up - Dean Cat 4 hurricane. Ice Cap is now the Slush Cap! Polar bears are dieing from drowning. Glacier national park will be no more in a couple of years. Woods are burning! We poisoned the planet with our thoughts and hatred. That is what is going to kill us! God is on Vacation and Bush thinks he took over. Sorry. Not a political website. Just venting!

Recent studies show that the planet naturally warms and cools. But just in case you could always buy beach front property in Colorado. The big supporter of Global warming also said he invented the internet. Thanks Al watch out for man/bear/pig.

Well, if the good people do get taken and the bad people will remain to see the end, I would say most of our STBX's will be staying until the end.

tl;dr lol

WELL I WANTED TO PROVOKE THOUGHT, AND IT LOOKS LIKE I MIGHT OF. ANYWAY, I JUST WANT EVERYONE TO KNOW WHERE THEY STAND IN REGUARDS TO THE FREE GIFT OF GOD THROUGH JESUS CHRIST AND WE WILL LET THE CHIPS FALL WHERE THEY MAY.
I DEFINATELY BELIEVE IN THE RAPTURE OF THE CHURCH, BUT DOES THAT INCLUDE ONLY THE "GOOD CHRISTIANS"(SAINTS) AND NOT THE CHRISTIANS THAT STILL SIN(SOLDIERS), I DON'T KNOW. I PERSONALLY BELIEVE THAT ALL OF THE BORN-AGAINS WILL BE RAPTURED. WILL THAT BE IN THE YEAR 5873,(TO THROW A NUMBER OUT THERE)2048,(100 YEARS AFTER ISREAL BECAME A NATION AGAIN)OR WITHIN THE NEXT 5 OR 10 YEARS? I DON'T KNOW, AND NO ONE BUT DAD KNOWS.
I DO BELIEVE IN THE BIBLE AND I BELIEVE THE BOOK OF REVELATION IS RELEVENT TO THIS AGE WHICH MILLIONS BELIEVE ARE THE LAST DAYS. NO MATTER WHEN THE RAPTURE IS OR IS NOT, KNOW TODAY WHERE YOU STAND WITH GOD, AND LIVE THAT PHILOSOPHY TO THE FULLEST. AS FOR ME, I AM GOING TO TELL AS MANY PEOPLE ABOUT JESUS CHRIST AS I CAN BEFORE THE DAY I DIE OR DISAPEAR BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT MY SOUL IS SCREAMING OUT FOR ME TO DO WHICH I BELIEVE IS WHAT GOD HAS SUDDENLY CALLED ME TO DO, I AM COMPELLED TO BE OBIEDIANT TO THE HOLY SPIRIT WITHIN MY SOUL.
TO EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU I WISH A PEACEFUL JOUNEY TO, AND MUCH HAPPINESS AND WELLNESS.
ROB

Well, tell that to a 'New Age' person, Gzus. As I stated, many believe that it will be the 'unbelievers' that will be caught up, and the 'church' believers will remain. But I won't go into that right now. Maybe a few replies down, after I wake up.

There are many versions out there, but I can guarantee one thing for sure, the born-again believers don't even know who Jesus was in the first place, so their version of the rapture is definately wrong.

If you throw out scriptures to convince me, it won't work! I've been there and after years of research, I've concluded that the born-again version is wrong.

One thing is that believers need to think for themselves, and this isn't possible if you're sitting in a building listening to a man standing in front of you, controlling others by making rules (man's own) and telling you you'll go to hell if you don't believe him. You folks don't have the truth about heaven, hell, Jesus, God, or the rapture.

Try really having a personal relationship with 'God.' It, not He, has a lot to tell you, if you'd have ears to hear, with your heart (spirit), not your head!

Please stop yelling by typing in capitals!

Typically i dont respond to religious type conversation because we all have our own belief systems in place and are entitled to which ever belief we have chosen and taken as our own. I have to say I am definitely much more on the New Age side although I was raised very very Catholic.
I wouldlike to think that God,or the higher power is a kind and gentle God. A forgiving God who wishes no evil upon us and is always forgiving (if we wish for forgiveness) I think the only punishment we are given is the hell we have created ourselves right here on Earth. I'm not sure i believe in Rapture as a form of punishment. I think the Rapture is already here in the dishonest way many lead their lives.

Yes I absolutely believe it

The ALL CAPITALS is in honor of GZUS THUG'S earthly father. (or so I read somewhere) Or maybe his caps button is stuck.

GZUS - you are bold and I admire your obedience to what HE has put on your heart. You have definately provoked some thought. You have donethis is a "non-offensive" way. Some past threads have not been that way.

THANKS 'BU, YOU ARE TRULY A GREAT FRIEND, AND YES I DO WRITE IN CAPS IN LOVING MEMORY OF MY DECIECED DADDY, AND HAVE BEEN FOR YEARS(EVER SINCE I GOT ACCESS TO A COMPUTER) NOT TO MENTION THAT MY EYE SIGHT SUCKS, AND AS MY DAD ALWAYS SAID, IT IS JUST SO MUCH EASIER AND CLEARER TO READ CAPS, AND I AGREE WITH HIS ULTIMATE WISDOM THAT HE BESTOWED UPON ME FOR BUT ONLY 13 YEARS OF MY LIFE. I LOVE YOU DAD, REST IN PEACE AND I CAN'T WAIT TO SEE YOUR FACE AGAIN WHEN MY TIME ON THE EARTH COMES TO AN END EITHER BY DEATH OR RAPTURE.

I CAN JUST IMAGINE THE HORROR OF THE IMPOSSIBILITY OF SUCH A SUPERNATURAL EVENT THAT NO ONE IN THEIR RIGHT MIND COULD BELIEVE UNLESS THEY SAW IT FOR THEMSELVES. JUST AS IN THE DAYS OF NOAH WHEN THIS FOOL TOOK WHAT HE HEARD IN HIS SPIRIT FROM GOD AND BUILT A BOAT WHEN THE PEOPLE OF THE DAY HAD NEVER EVEN SEEN IT RAIN. OR IN THE DAYS OF JESUS WHEN HE SAID THAT THE TEMPLE WOULD BE DESTROYED AND REBUILT IN 3 DAYS. THE PEOPLE OF THE DAY KNEW WITH THERE BRAINS THAT IT TOOK FORTY SOME-ODD YEARS TO BUILD THE TEMPLE. IN THOSE DAYS, HE SAID IF YOU HERE HIS VOICE DON'T HARDEN YOUR HEART, BUT I SAY IN THESE LAST DAYS TO BELIEVE WHATEVER IS IN YOUR HEART ACCORDING TO THE PATH THAT YOUR JOURNEY HAS LEAD YOU TO BECOME, AND LIVE IT TO THE FULLEST, AND WE WILL LET THE CHIPS FALL WHERE THEY MAY. THE HIGHER POWER WILL CHOOSE TO SEPERATE THE WHEAT FROM THE CHAFF IF HE WANTS TO, AND WHATEVER HAPPENS WILL HAPPEN AT THAT POINT, AND THEN WE CAN CHOOSE TO PLACE BLAME ON ANYONE OR ANYTHING THAT WE PERSONALLY FEEL IS RESPONSIBLE.

I WISH YOU ALL AN UNEXPLAINABLE PEACE THAT YOU FEEL THOUGHOUT YOUR INSIDES THAT NEVER EVER GOES AWAY.
THE NEXT IN A LONG HISTORY OF NOT SO BLIND FAITH ALLEGIANT FOOLS,
ROB

Cerri,

I will agree with you about one thing. The Christian walk is/should be a personal thing based on your relationship with God, not on what some person in a pulpit is throwing out.

As a Christian I have the Holy Spirit in me and IT is my teacher. Everything that comes from any teacher of the Word is filtered through that and through my own studies of the Word. There are some great teachers out there (some that have strongly impacted my life & Christian walk), but nobody has it all right. In fact I'm convinced that about half of anyone's doctrine is, and properly so (see Col2:6-23), personal (hence so many denominations -God permitted). God created individuals, is in individual relationship with each of us and has a personal plan for each of us.

As to the He/It issue, God is neihter male or female, we have no frame of reference there except that the scriptures say he made us (male & female) in His image. I believe that has less to do with the physical and more to do with our triune natures (Father/Son(or Word)/Holy Spirit vs Soul/Body/Spirit). I refer to God mainly in the male term simply because Jesus is a man and he referred to God as Father (more properly daddy).

As to the scripture, it's been pretty well intact and unchanged for almost 2000 years, (some of the OT for almost 3000). There are books that were not included because of the doubtfulness of their origins & because they included teachings that were in contradiction to the rest of scripture. Some of them make for interesting reading, but I choose to believe that the Bible is the inspired Word of God. I base my life on that (after having studied and tried many other paths) because of my relationship with Christ (the Holy Spirit confirms it).

No