Skwerl: I get what you are saying about the way it was written, but to remember it is written by someone who is not an author, not an expert just someone sharing his take on his fears, what his dad said and his naivety of the situation is why it may seem so baseline of a thought instead of a well researched idea.

Have to take it with the grain of salt from who wrote it and how people differ in how they express their thoughts and beliefs on a situation.

As blondie said, if you marry the right person the idea of making the other person happy works both ways. It is mutually beneficial.
It honestly made for happy marriages.
It absolutely would not work in this day and time because most everybody is out for themselves. I'm not saying that is bad, it is just the way it is.

I think the walmart philosophy is an indicator of the changing role of marriage. It's not a great way to show it, but it is what it is. I think another example is the growing trend of people cohabitating but not marrying, and the growing population of happy, singles by choice.

Back in the day, marriage was primarily a way for two people to support each other. They may have loved each other, but the relationship was more about her raising the kids while he went off to work. The traditional roles kinda crap. Today, people are generally more independent, so the focus of a marriage is love. Which is awesome, but basically less "secure" than the older model.
Couples of yesterday may have had a lower divorce rate, but I'd betcha they had a higher rate of marriages where the spouses didn't quite like each other.

What happens when you water a plant.....it grows. You have to be able to feed yourself and provide for your own needs...nourish yourself...mentally and physically. This is not selfish....it is a requirement to sustain YOUR life. What you put into a relationship in general is what you get back and I believe this is the message of that article. You have to water that relationship in order for it to produce anything for the both of you and your family.

Thanks CTB, I agree with you. All in all it really is a wonderful philosophy that would help a whole lot of relationships. Taken with a grain of salt it makes a beautiful point and gets us thinking in a healthy direction that we may not have taken before.

As far as men being more afraid of commitment, I think that's some left over monkey stuff.. Primal, human nature. Look at what attracts the different sexes: Generally speaking men like big boobs and wide hips. Signs of good reproduction. Women are attracted to men that protect and provide. Strength.
I'm condensing volumes of text books and studies and research into one dumb, over-generalized statement: women are more wired for commitment.

I think it's give and get.and reinforces itself. I feel I am treated like a king, and she feels she is treated like a queen, and in that, the things we do for each other aren't really thought of as making an extra effort just doing what we would normally do. I think when you hit that stage, it unintentionally reinforces itself. In her thinking of doing what she'd normally do, my thinking says wow! She's going above and beyond, when to her that's her normal course of action, and vice-versa.

Problems are addressed as a team regardless of whether it's internal to us, or external. Resolution ALWAYS occurs, even if the answer is that I need to find a better way to deal with it or she does, as there's nothing to do to change it, or its occurrence.

It's relatively simple if you communicate, as there's no such thing as over-communication.

Don't get me wrong there's a HUGE learning curve to getting there, as old triggers, and mindsets need to be dispensed with, and that takes patience by both parties until all that shit is unlearned.

What was the topic again?

I read that yesterday as well. Love is a verb. And, actions speak louder than words. Throw in some complacency and taking people for granted and that's why relationships fail, in my personal world. As "they" say..."A happy wife, is a happy life." :o)

In all seriousness, I do believe that love is a verb and it takes actions, 100% effort from each person. If one feels the other is not giving 100%, that's where the breakdown starts.

Agree. And there has to be give and take on both parts. One has to be willing to pick up the other's slack in a pinch. In my personal world, communication involves more than just talking. It involves listening and actually hearing what the other person has to say. Novel concept.

Cheryl, mmmmmmhhmm!

If you have read any of the follow up interviews regarding this story, you will see that he moved so that his wife could finish up school. He started to feel lonely and took out his frustration on her. He wasn't getting everything that he felt he needed and treated her poorly as a result. What I read is that the issue came to a head during a discussion with his wife and her reaction to his "demands" reminded him of his father's advice and realized that he was being selfish.

I didn't read the article as being "give everything and leave nothing for yourself." I read it as "don't let selfishness interfere with your ability to love your spouse ... to support them and do whatever you can to make the relationship a place where you BOTH want to be."

The more love you put into a relationship, the more you can take out ... but BOTH people need to be on the same page. There are a lot of unhealthy relationships where one person is a giver and gets lost in the relationship because the other is a taker and doesn't know how to give ... only take. I believe you need to learn how to be a gracious receiver, and a generous giver. I also feel it is critically important to have honest, open communication in a relationship.

I read this article and thought it was pretty good.. although in the realistic daily life and difficulties, its sometimes hard to always focus on giving to another person.. although it should. I personally receive much satisfaction from giving to another person - whether it be a friend, relative, organization, pan handler, etc. But especially receive much happiness from giving to my partner and making them feel good and happy. Its like that backrub they are asking for at 11pm and youre super tired and would like to just go to sleep without being bothered by having to rub their back. For me, if I put myself aside and go ahead making them happy and give them a backrub, I may be tired in the morning because I didnt get to sleep as early as I would have otherwise would have,.. although I feel happy in the sense that my partner felt good and I helped them feel good. It really is a two way street - giving that is., Im a firm believer that YOU GET WHAT YOU GIVE.. If you are selfish and fail to communicate and listen to your partners needs, feelings, etc,, in TIME they will also fail to care about yours. Thats whats gone wrong in my marriage. He has devalued my feelings for so long that I could care very little about HIS. Anyone else experience this??

I agree. When it's new to you, it's almost a transcendant experience when you do things for your partner without any desire or thought of what you get out of it. I sincerely wish both myself and my ex felt this way during out marriage.

It's funny, this was on yahoo today:
http://shine.yahoo.com/love-sex/why-man-s--marriage-isn-t-for-you--essay-misses-the-mark-201042173.html

So if there were some kind of conflict because he moved for her job, like he couldn't see his family, or left a job he loved, had no friends, whatever.. His resentment arose because he didn't feel like he was getting anything out of that sacrifice. He did something for her and didn't get anything in return. Of course that's wrong.. True love means you do things for your partner without any expectations. He should realize that his resentment is coming from selfishness.
But that doesn't erase his issues! If she asked him to leave his rocket scientist job at his family's company so she could go to pygmy raccoon hair dressing school, he should just look lovingly at her and say, "of course my dear, whatever makes you happy!"?


Where to go for dinner or what movie to watch is fine, but see if these sound healthy:

A: "Do you want to get married and live together for ever and ever?"
B: "If that's what makes you happy, of course!" says the person who just got divorced.

A: "I think we should quit our jobs and leave our families and move across the country to be surf bums."
B: "If that's what makes you happy, sure!" says the person who has never left their home state.

A: "I want to have children. What do you think?"
B "If that's what makes you happy, how many do you want?" says the person who never wanted children.

(As brought up in another forum:)
A: "I really want to have a three-some, even though you're not really a swinger or bi-sexual."
B: "I normally wouldn't be comfortable with that, but if that's what you really want, of course my love!"

I think the confusion from the article, at least for me, comes from the total lack of any mention that your own needs/wants/dreams matter too. Of course they shouldn't always take priority.. It just seems one sided; no balance as I beleive there should be in a healthy relationship. Two people, 50/50, COMPROMISE.

I experience this in both my marriage and recent relationship. There was a huge failure to communicate on my exH, and more recently with the other, but not as bad. He would hint around to stuff rather than come out and say it, talk about it, put that pink elephant to rest instead of dancing around it. I was just as bad, I communicated with my exH and he never answered me and recently when the tough topics were hinted at with my now exbf, I ignored them, and danced around them, because I knew if I gave my answers I knew what the end result would have been...that we would part ways and I wasn't willing to give that up quite yet, mostly out of fear of being alone. I think communication is absolutely key, here. Whether you agree or not the cards are out there and no one is the wiser. Like MSgtD said, it's a learning curve based on previous experience, but I think right out of the gate you need to establish that. JMO.

Absolutely Skwer, there are variations to compromise. Youve gotta be realistic and reasonable. I think if you are expecting someone to compromise who they are, their beliefs / values than that is probably unreasonable. Thats why dating is so important .. the learning and growing in the relationship -- getting to know one another. This is a GREAT topic!! :))