Awe, Michael I'm so sorry for the pain you are having. It sounds like you have good reason to feel confused even though there are some very real and logical issues that you two have been dealing with. The only thing I can offer is that sometimes when a relationship is failing we sort of throw out "life lines" to try and save it. For example, even before I knew that my relationship was going to end, the weeks leading up to it ending were pretty normal and we were even trying to come up with things to do together to bring us closer like dinner dates and taking tennis lessons together. It was like I think we knew that the relationship was dying and would die, but we kept giving it blood transfusions so we didn't have to acknowledge that we had some fundamental problems that were just not fixable.

Now, that may not be the case for you. Even though you and your wife have a long history with some pretty tough stuff that has happened in the past (and some tough stuff in the present as well), it sounds like if what you are saying is accurate, your wife hasn't really "addressed" it, as you say. If that is true and she can acknowledge that, this may be the time in her life that she is trying to move into a place that she feels will allow her to address it. And maybe she's not really sure how to do it unless she tries on her own. I wonder if you told her that you were willing to do whatever it takes for her to get help to address her past, even if that meant some time apart, would she do it? Do you have it in you to make that offer if you think that might be what she needs? It sounds like you two really do love each other. You are right though, you can't fix her or heal her. Maybe you can offer her the space to get some help and give her the time it would take to heal. It sounds like she would really need professional help. She's been holding in a lot of pain for a long time. In the meantime, finding someone professional for you to talk to as well could have the benefit of helping you with understanding her as well as maybe processing some of your own grief.

Stay in touch. I hope that the DS community helps you during this difficult time. Hang in there :-)

Of course, whatever she needs. If she needed to see other people to see if she truly did love me, that would be painful, but not my worst fear.

My worst fear is, she views this as her only option (divorce). I think she feels it's the only way to get past the hurt, the anger, frustration, resentments. Even our therapist stated to her yesterday - "Even if you divorce Mike, it might not make you feel better. You still might feel the same way, hurt, angry, afraid..." - she said she knows.

I think her reasoning that divorcing me will make her feel better in the long run is painful and not true. If she truly believes this, we have no hope.

The second option of getting help for the pain, feeling better, not feeling like crap all the time. If that would bring a smile to her face, change her life, I'd sadly walk away, at least feeling better that we did what we could, and she's really happy now.

I love her, with my whole heart. I still think she loves me. She my best friend. We can sit on a bench and just make fun of people when they walk by (sorry, we have a mean streak...lol), or she has me in tears when she imitates and mocks me. I'd be losing my wife, the woman I love, and just as important, my best friend.

I don't want to lose her.

From what you have said, what I hear is that she does love you. If she acknowledged to the therapist that she knows divorce might not take away the pain and anger, than what I see is someone that is trying to find a way to be free from the pain and anger and right now divorce is the straw she's grasping at.

I'm not an expert by any means. But my advice would be to be her best friend now more than you ever have been. If that means divorce, then okay. Divorce may be the word she needs to apply to this situation in order to give herself permission to take the next step toward healing. If you were divorced would it mean that you didn't consider her your soul mate anymore? Probably not. Some people have a connection that is on a higher level. I don't know if you two have that, but if you do, than divorce is just a word. It won't change who you are to each other.

I guess my response to what you have written would be to use the word "allow". Allow her the space, however she defines it, to figure out where she needs to be in the scheme of things. When people stop feeling they need to escape, they sometimes find they like where they are. I know this sounds pretty whoo whoo. I wish I could describe it better...

Well, she wants a trial separation, where I move out and we both date other people, but we can also date each other. I agreed, because she finally agreed to go see a therapist for all the hurt, pain, anger, etc she was in over the years.

I'm a long shot at this point, because she's not happy with me to begin with. I still love her, so I'll do what it takes, and work on myself, I'm just still overwhelmed with emotions. Even the little stuff, like not being able to give the kids hugs when they go to sleep, breaks my heart thinking about it.

I've eaten 1 1/2 bowls of soup over the last 5 days, working on 2-4 hours of sleep a night. I'm not functioning too well. I'm supposed to start dating again on top of this!?!?.........dear God, the horror...

I'm realizing as I can't sleep, I feel like a failure. Believe me, I know I'm not. I've had to overcome some crap in my life. Grew up in a condemned building with 2 alcoholic parents. Mom left us when I was 13. Always had trouble trusting people or getting close to them.

Wife and I married at 18 when she got pregnant. I was in AA by the time I was 23. Haven't picked up a drink since. I recently quit smoking (coming up on 2 months) after 30 years. Had to overcome severe depression in between ad well.

I say all this because, yeah, I could have done better, I could have tried harder, but over the last 3-4 days, all I hear my wife saying is "you never made me feel wanted", "you never made me feel loved", "you were never there for me". All this is BS. Yes I've made mistakes, I've also grown alot as a person, raised 4 beautiful kids, worked hard, sacrificed, took care of my family first. They always came first.

And yet, all I can here the woman I love say is "you never", meaning no matter how hard I try, I'm always going to come up short. That hurts, and it's also not true. I beat the odds I don't know how many times in my life, I'll do it agin.

I am so sorry for your pain. It is commendable that you take every. problem you ever had and place them squarely on your shoulders. I do NOT believe you held a gun to her head and told her to have an affair.
I know both men and women who had drinking problems and their husband or wife did not resort to an affair.

You only want your wife too be happy and she only wants herself to be happy. Somehow I think you need to start thinking of some things that might help make you happy, without her sometimes.

The "you never" crap is meant to make you feel horrible and is about the worse possible thing she could say.
Wanting to separate and date each other, plus other people would totally tear you up inside.
One of my favorite people up here says past actions dictate future actions. You will be walking on egg shells the rest of your life.
I hope you choose to live your life to make you happy. I think you gave your marriage a good shot, but now may be the time to think of your family as the kids and yourself.

I wish you the best.

The thing is, the more I think about it, the more this can only go one of two ways - either we both seek individual and joint counseling, even if there is a trial separation, but we both focus on US and getting us better (the thought of me being with other women and her being with other men just feels toxic if we have any chance of staying together) - or we just give up, right here and now, and start the divorce process.

There's something else going on with her, I know it. She seems almost excited and happy by all this, like it's fun, while I'm completely devasted. She's not evil, she's not like that.

Then, when we discuss a trial separation (she says she's still not 100% certain she wants a divorce yet, it's too "final"), she's on the lap top within minutes, looking at apartments for me. An hour later, after talking about dating others, she's on the lap top looking at lingerie in front of me. How can someone who loves me be so cruel? I can't eat, sleep, or stop crying, and I feel like she's having fun, already enjoying the attention from other men (maybe more then I know), and excited.

It sounds like she is on her own power trip----just like you say and she is destroying you in the process.
Only you can decide your future. When she wants something she gives you lip service-------her actions do not match her lip service she gives you to get her way.

And here's the fine line.....

I think, for some reason, she's terrified at looking at herself. This is what's so frustrating. Have I come up short alot of times and made mistakes? Of course. I tell her, and whoever else will listen, I make mistakes.

She said years ago, she really doesn't have any problems, just the problems and stress I bring. 2 months ago we were talking, she was upset, said she could never count on me. She started listing all the bad things I do. I asked her, "what about the good stuff?", she says "there's not alot". When I mentioned this to our therapist when we were in counseling, he just dropped his head back and went "wow......wow"...this is a doctor mind you.

Now, I'm not perfect, I have alot of work to do still, but do you know how this makes me feel? I cook her diner and serve it to her. I try to make her feel special, but she's numb to it.

She says "we've tried & tried, and nothing works." That's the bullshit. You can't think you have nothing to work on, all your problems and issues are either me, or I caused, and let's just give up because we keep trying and nothing works.

Ok. She wants a trial separation right now instead of a divorce. She wants us both to go to individual counseling to work on our issues, but at the same time, date other people to see if we "truly belong with each other". I've told this to several people, and they're stunned by it - "wait, you're gonna do a trial separation, do individual counseling, and at the same time, date other people to see what happens? That makes no sense".

You know, at first I was pissed about this, but I'm making peace with this. If she wants to date other guys to find wha she's looking for, good luck. I've had offers over the years. I could be with a couple different women in a matter of days. I don't want that. What's the point? I know who I love and who I want to be with. I don't need to screw other women to find out what I already know. I'll just continue to work on myself, the kids, and continue to love her. If at that point, she still isn't sold on my true feelings for her, I'll move on, but I'll move on in peace knowing I did everything in my power to show my love. No fighting, no vengeful trysts, none of that crap. I don't need it.

I am the woman in the same scenario, I could be your wife. I said and felt those things too.
My X went back to the mother of his 44 year old son last Jan after they reconnected out of the blue (supposedly) We were doing counseling because after being together for 36 years, we were still doing the same dance, me wanting more than he is able to give. So she came along and he chose her. He went to her the same night I asked him to leave because I couldn't deal with them being in contact and he said he was confused and didn't know what he wanted. And we are divorced and he is living with her and says he is happy.

So maybe it's a blessing is disguise. I am still finding my way and trying to understand myself, and not think about him. My divorce was final December of last year.

Maybe, but I still love her.

I mean, not "I care about her, she's the mother of my children", I mean, I think about her when I'm not with her. I feel good when she's next to me. I don't think of or want other women. This is how I feel, after 25+ years. I don't want variety, lots of women, younger women, etc. I want my wife. Of course, what I "want" may not matter.

So, being that my feelings are what they are, I don't see the "blessing in disguise" scenario.

I meant for me and my husband. I understand where you are, I was there last year too. I would have taken him back if he would have wanted to but with conditions this time not just going along with everything.
And I still have my moments of thinking about him but I know for me now today that it is better for both of us.

I've been in a three month trial separation for seven months now. What we think our spouses want, may not be what they want. Only they know what they want. Even if they don't know what they want. What I'm saying is, if she wanted to be with you, she would be. Then you, or me...we would not be here on this site seeking support. But we don't know what our spouses are really thinking in times like these. We want them to trust us, to be open with their hearts, but their heart is clouded, unfortunately. So we have to give in to uncertainty. These have been the most trying times for me, and that uncertainty that I've accepted has been at the root of so much doubt and sadness. But I do it. Because I love my wife. And I accept that whatever she decides, is for her. Love wants happiness for those it loves.

I know you're in a tough spot. I hope it will get better.

Please note that my husband left me, on very short notice, just 3 months ago. It was 100% his decision & he refused to discuss anything with me. I tell you this in case my opinions might be biased. I can also tell you that I have often felt like dying...but this bit of distance with as little contact as possible is also revealing a lot of ugly truths (about him) that I have not been willing to face over the years.

My best advice to you is to focus on yourself & building your own life without her. Of course you don't want to date...because you are still in love with & attached to your wife. You don't need to date right now, maybe focus on other areas of your life & building those up (friends, family, work, hobbies).

Your wife is not in the same place you are. From what I've seen happen among my friends who have split up over the past 5 or so years, it looks like she is taking a long wave goodbye, & she may not even have fully acknowledged where she's at within herself. Whatever it is, she is being unbelievably selfish. The way she is treating you is really abominable & it seems like she's getting everything she wants, but where are you being considered in all of this?

I would say don't play along. Why would you? I would avoid conversations about dating others & all these other things she is so excited about...& she doesn't get to pick YOUR new home. You decide that for yourself.

I don't believe that people who are trying to work on their relationship go & date other people. If you need personal growth, go take a pottery class or some such thing.