Bipolar Disorder Support Group
Bipolar disorder is not just a single disorder, but a category of mood disorders marked by periods of abnormally high energy and euphoria, often accompanied by bouts of clinical depression. This is the place to talk about your experience with bipolar disorder, learn from others' experiences, and find support.
**It should be noted that this is kinda controversial, and may come off as inflammatory or insensitive, but I want a frank discussion about this and the opinions of others within my own bipolar community, and so I'm reaching out in spite of possible backlash. Read at your own risk, anyhow.**
**Might trigger those who have had traumatic experiences losing loved ones to suicide**
To be blunt, I sort of feel that the "right to die", or medical euthanasia, should extend to the mentally ill community.
Granted, there should be a number of stipulations put in place to prevent unnecessary deaths in which the person most likely could've gone on to live happily.
I feel that there should be a process whereby which a mentally ill person (who is "with it" or however you'd word that I guess, enough to have their autonomy in-tact and to be able to represent themselves in their matters, responsibly) can prove that they are a chronic sufferer and cannot pull themselves out of sadness, disconnectedness, depression, and/or delusion, despite repeated endeavors.
And of course that you'd have to be an adult, 18 or older. Preferably mid-twenties, to be on the sure side, I think.
And for there to be a mandatory waiting period (post evaluation of claims of chronic misery) of like, a year or two? Idk. Nothing too extreme, but definitely enough time to where both the person and their healthcare professionals can be sure that this is a sound, resolute decision, and not an act of desperation, or a whim, because the changing moods, personalities, and mindsets of our community MUST be addressed, if this is to ever like..... gain traction? Legally. Yea.
So like. You'd have to prove that it'd be unethical to not extend the option of medical euthanasia to you.
I understand that this sounds kinda radical and messy, but bear with me, here.
And I do wonder how grieving families would factor into the equation, because while they aren't the primary center of focus, some attention ought to be paid to those who have to deal with the emotional aftermath.
Even though really, I don't think you could have a discussion about that without also discussing the problem of society viewing chronic physical diseases and disorders as far more scientific- and more serious than mental ones, even though mental disorders are physical disorders, as they originate from the brain. I.e., a physical bodily organ. So.
On that note, it'll probably be at least a century of so before most of society is of the mindset that physical and mental disorders are equally as serious.
(Lol. Anyways.)
I also wonder about my civic duty as a member of society, if it'd be more of a betrayal to "take the easy way out" as they say (I hate that phrase, but lol, I'll use it here for the sake of example) after having used up resources trying to rehabilitate myself, or if I'd kinda be doing society a fucked up sort of favor by removing myself from the equation after failure to launch (into a successful, happy adult).
Honestly it's not a far cry from suicide ethics and the debates and debacle surrounding all that.
And I understand that there are those who try to kill themselves, fail, get better, and go on to live happily ever after.
And I really want to have faith that it's a very real, very feasible possibility in most cases of depressed persons.
But I don't believe that it is.
What I do believe, is that the medical community can come up with a fairly accurate algorithm to distinguish those who will likely recover (even late bloomers?) versus those who..... likely won't. Sad, but yea.
And I know that suicide's a messy, messy business all-around. It's gory, it's gruesome, it can leave a person crippled.
And so I don't see why we aren't afforded the same "right to die" via painless medical euthanasia as a terminally ill, physically-hurting person, if I can successfully prove to someone that, "Look, I've suffered enough."
I mean I know it's ironic as hell I guess, that I'd bring this up riiiiiight before my disability hearing hahahaha. It might be testament to my mental state at this time.
But nah.
I actually truly feel that granting people a respectable, painless death should be more of less of a basic human right, even though it'd be chock full of legal complications, if put into practice.
Idk. Thoughts? Go easy on me. I know a lot of you think suicide's selfish, and I can see why, and honestly I can't produce a solid defense against that argument. It kind of is, I guess. But it's not right to leave miserable people who have been miserable their whole lives to their own messy, crude devices (of ending their misery themselves).
(holy shit I hope I don't get banned. I'm being totally serious here and tried my best to word this as professionally and respectably as I could.)
**Might trigger those who have had traumatic experiences losing loved ones to suicide**
To be blunt, I sort of feel that the "right to die", or medical euthanasia, should extend to the mentally ill community.
Granted, there should be a number of stipulations put in place to prevent unnecessary deaths in which the person most likely could've gone on to live happily.
I feel that there should be a process whereby which a mentally ill person (who is "with it" or however you'd word that I guess, enough to have their autonomy in-tact and to be able to represent themselves in their matters, responsibly) can prove that they are a chronic sufferer and cannot pull themselves out of sadness, disconnectedness, depression, and/or delusion, despite repeated endeavors.
And of course that you'd have to be an adult, 18 or older. Preferably mid-twenties, to be on the sure side, I think.
And for there to be a mandatory waiting period (post evaluation of claims of chronic misery) of like, a year or two? Idk. Nothing too extreme, but definitely enough time to where both the person and their healthcare professionals can be sure that this is a sound, resolute decision, and not an act of desperation, or a whim, because the changing moods, personalities, and mindsets of our community MUST be addressed, if this is to ever like..... gain traction? Legally. Yea.
So like. You'd have to prove that it'd be unethical to not extend the option of medical euthanasia to you.
I understand that this sounds kinda radical and messy, but bear with me, here.
And I do wonder how grieving families would factor into the equation, because while they aren't the primary center of focus, some attention ought to be paid to those who have to deal with the emotional aftermath.
Even though really, I don't think you could have a discussion about that without also discussing the problem of society viewing chronic physical diseases and disorders as far more scientific- and more serious than mental ones, even though mental disorders are physical disorders, as they originate from the brain. I.e., a physical bodily organ. So.
On that note, it'll probably be at least a century of so before most of society is of the mindset that physical and mental disorders are equally as serious.
(Lol. Anyways.)
I also wonder about my civic duty as a member of society, if it'd be more of a betrayal to "take the easy way out" as they say (I hate that phrase, but lol, I'll use it here for the sake of example) after having used up resources trying to rehabilitate myself, or if I'd kinda be doing society a fucked up sort of favor by removing myself from the equation after failure to launch (into a successful, happy adult).
Honestly it's not a far cry from suicide ethics and the debates and debacle surrounding all that.
And I understand that there are those who try to kill themselves, fail, get better, and go on to live happily ever after.
And I really want to have faith that it's a very real, very feasible possibility in most cases of depressed persons.
But I don't believe that it is.
What I do believe, is that the medical community can come up with a fairly accurate algorithm to distinguish those who will likely recover (even late bloomers?) versus those who..... likely won't. Sad, but yea.
And I know that suicide's a messy, messy business all-around. It's gory, it's gruesome, it can leave a person crippled.
And so I don't see why we aren't afforded the same "right to die" via painless medical euthanasia as a terminally ill, physically-hurting person, if I can successfully prove to someone that, "Look, I've suffered enough."
I mean I know it's ironic as hell I guess, that I'd bring this up riiiiiight before my disability hearing hahahaha. It might be testament to my mental state at this time.
But nah.
I actually truly feel that granting people a respectable, painless death should be more of less of a basic human right, even though it'd be chock full of legal complications, if put into practice.
Idk. Thoughts? Go easy on me. I know a lot of you think suicide's selfish, and I can see why, and honestly I can't produce a solid defense against that argument. It kind of is, I guess. But it's not right to leave miserable people who have been miserable their whole lives to their own messy, crude devices (of ending their misery themselves).
(holy shit I hope I don't get banned. I'm being totally serious here and tried my best to word this as professionally and respectably as I could.)
-
Hey all, i know its been quite awhile since i posted on here. Its been a summer all right. Its been something else........... You know how they say not to open the can of worms? Well a few months ago i decided to find out what my due date would have been for my first baby, the one conceived by r***. My baby would have been due on March 4th of 2006. They would be 20 years old. I was R**** on June...
-
Ever since I stopped doing therapy because of insurance, I've been feeling that old tense and irritable sense of anxiety and stress. I hate that. I was making so many strides and changes during therapy, my therapist would acknowledge all of my progress and accomplishments, and I miss that reassurance. Today I thought about it, and I made those changes! She would always tell me that I chose to...
Dementia, cancers, Parkinson's ALS, disease have no cure.
Mental illness are treatable. It may means a shift in one's abilities to function in the same way we once did , but it is treatable
I agree it's treatable. But that doesn't account for quality of life. For chronic treatment resistant bp'er's with regular bouts of suicidal ideation, it's not black and white. Just like with many things it's individual and relative. But I stay pretty sick most of the time so I take offense when a subject like this is met with such disdain.
Nobody is stopping anyone from killing themselves.
That goes for anyone "terminal" so I am not even sure why it has to be legal with assistance? My husband's friend had MS and killed himself and my friend killed himself due to depression. Other's killed themselves in other ways....
The dead well, they are gone and the aftermath only belongs to the living.
With dignity? No such thing imo considering it is an intentional act.
Comparing terminal illness to mental illness is a mute point because pain is pain and every person has their own threshold. Who's to say there wouldn't be a "cure" for whatever the disease?
Mental illness sucks no doubt but for me I refuse to let the bastard get the better of me like it did when I was a teen that was very close to death at my own hands. ( not due to bipolar but some other lovely disorders from childhood trauma)
A lot of things in life is are so not right and life can and is painful. There is nothing written in stone stating we are guaranteed an easy life or free from pain. There are meaningful lessons learned from all of it by all involved. Not going to get into all of that.
I'm pretty sure that the children of my husband's friend with MS that wheeled his chair to a dead end while they were at soccer practice and blew his brains out wouldn't think assistant suicide is any better..
To each their own.....not my place to criticize anyone that chooses suicide.
Voltaire, as your friend I have to ask you if this is coming up now as a "testament to your mental state"? Or, is it just a subject you wanted to explore? You are the only one that can answer that.
I understand what you are saying and in a way I think it's legitimate. However, it can never happen. Simply the nature of mental illness would exclude us from meeting the legal criteria necessary. How would a physician ever be able to say the likely outcome of our illness is death when we don't even know that? Where would we ever find a judge to say we are of sound mind? How many of our family members could be consulted? See what I mean? Those are just some of the criteria. I feel sure we would not meet a single one.
There are legal resources in place that are mostly for aging patients. "Living wills" and "Do not resuscitate" give patients the right to die naturally but they do not include "interfering" in the natural course of life.
We are all adults here and it's okay to discuss difficult subjects as long as we use the "trigger" warning. However, if you are finding yourself preoccupied with the subject of death, I am urging you to talk to your doctor. It is a sure sign of depression.
As always, I am wishing you the best. Sending my love.
I think the one "disgust" reaction was fair. I expected as much. You present an ethical situation to a group of people (myself included) who are desperately trying to overcome deep, deep dark depression, there'll be a few in the bunch who take offense that anyone would have the gall to suggest that some are simply hopeless.
I'm not saying that they are. Or that you are. Or that I am.
If you wanna believe you'll feel better some day no matter what, great. I'll believe it too, I'll endure the emotional ups-and-downs of whether or not it happens with you.
I'm trying to embrace that mindset currently, myself. I'm a work in progress.
I'm saying that a person has the right to decide whether or not they are hopeless, when they've surpassed a certain point.
And that I can't make that call for them, and you shouldn't have the jurisdiction based on your supposed disgust. It's similar to pro-life rhetoric. It's an emotional reaction.
I'll try to put this as respectfully and non-condescendingly as I possibly can:
I think your emotional reaction of visceral disgust is very valid, and very real, and I should respect it up to a point.
But emotional politics should be reserved for where they are needed; i.e. Human rights, but like...... outside of the medical "sphere" as a whole.
Which includes things like abortion debates and the right to die ethos.
Anyone who finds it appalling to consider letting things die shouldn't ehh..... really be making the call. Sorry.
That's harsh. I know. Again. I think your criticism of me was fair. But we can't run society based upon the fanciful notion that everybody has an equal opportunity to get better.
And if we are to be so bold,
Then we at least ought to upgrade the mental healthcare system tenfold and afford it to people regardless of their finances. Meaning, universal healthcare, because shit, I've seen the differences between "government-run facilities" and HMO-afforded residential places, and those with money get better care, period, and facts will back me up on that.
Gilded, I agree that it'd take forever to gain traction here and that places in which it IS taken legitimately (see? I didn't make this shit up on a sick whim, other nations thought of it before me), it's kinda tedious and rudimentary.
Probably at very least, I'd have to try out ECT before being eligible because it's the "last resort" for the most stubborn cases of depression, but I've heard absolute horror stories about people shitting themselves, becoming catatonic, going into a pseudo-vegetative state, and forgetting such huge chunks of their life that some have had to re-enter university because they've forgotten their studies and basic job skills and cannot continue on without first re-tracing those footsteps.
And I'm iffy on ECT erasing my memory. While sometimes I think a little Sunshine of The Spotless Mind would do my mentally-scarred ass a whole world of good, other times I think I ought to continue on in my experience as a human, leaving nothing behind.
Also I'd be kind of horrified if I forgot who my girlfriend was, and that'd be a very real possibility of ECT. I've known her around three years and she's a retired combat veteran (same age as me, she dropped out young for reasons) and she's told me that having me in mind helped her psychologically deal with the horrors of war.
(Yes I realize the irony in bringing up important people in my life while insisting I should have the right to euthanize myself. I'd put a fuck-ton of thought into that decision, obviously.)
Also while calling me disgusting, please keep in mind that I am only 21 years old! I am an adult. But just barely. I'm a seasoned debater, I guess. Hello, grew up in the internet age.
But I don't enjoy vitriol. And I don't appreciate it. Even though I understand its place among such debates.
I'm not some holier-than-thou asshole saying that the mentally ill populous (of which I AM IN) are a hopeless bunch of degenerates, and so what if they die.
I'm saying that I'm on the other side of the coin, and based on my experiences as a mentally ill adult: having hoped AND FULL AND WELL BELIEVED I'd be a successful and happy twenty-something as a depressed teen, and here I am a miserable hopeless twenty-something applying for Disability on these grounds, watching eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeverybody my age around me get out of the house on a daily basis and attend universities and have full-time jobs which they take great pride in, I feel that this is the ethical solution. It isn't damned eugenics or anything like that. It's choice. Pro-choice for people (of age of consent) who are already born.
I'm trying to navigate the messy world of human rights as is everyone else my age, and I don't want to leave a stone un-turned just because it's kind of a messy stone that I'll get my hands all muddy for turning over.
"Nothing ventured, nothing gained."
If it advances the dialogue of what is ethical and just, I'm willing to get my little 21-year-old hands as 'disgusting' as need be! Especially if I know it gives others in my same situation some peace of mind.
(Which also I should note that in dealing with Borderline Personality Disorder, which I've got by the way thanks, a lot of psychiatrists are much less strict with penalizing suicide threats and suicidal thoughts. Not because they are taken less seriously, but because it is thought, AND SOMEWHAT PROVEN, that feeling like YOU are in control of whether you'll live or die gives a depressed, mentally ill person the feeling of empowerment to go on living, because they feel that if it's not now or never, it can wait, I can try anytime I like. And that buys people like me a lot of time, and if put into law, might have a similar effect, is what I think.)
If someone reminds me later, I'll come back with the source for the above paragraph. I've got it scribbled in a journal somewhere, I've got like 20 journals from the past couple years, but if you want proof bad enough, I'll happily find it for you, because I wrote it down for the very reason that I knew if I told my mother, "Hey, some doctors think leniency on suicide threats actually helps some patients", she wouldn't believe a word of it.
I know this is kind of a long slog-through, but I put effort into this, and if you put energy into hating me, I will put energy into explaining myself, if I feel that you are worth-while and I care that you are upset, which I do.
I don't think if it ever became an option it could happen without ALL other venues well tried... Ongoing therapy, perhaps hormones , many coping skills explored
I think we have to also entertain the other side of this... What if it was someone we loved dearly... Our parents, siblings, our children or significant others... Would we be so open to have them commit a legal form of suicide for an illness that is chronic but there is also treatment for??... I know that I wouldn't be okay with this
The post has a trigger warning. If it upset someone, they wanted to be upset.
I don't feel attacked. Or unfairly criticized. And I said that several times.
And yes, I know.
And of course I wouldn't be "okay" with someone I loved doing this.
My mother has a rather extreme case of scoliosis, a semi-botched spinal fusion which is irreversible, her ribcage is growing further inward and could crush her heart or other organs at any point, and she has a number of other complications.
So like, if she said to me, "You know, Chris, I'm sorry to tell you this, but I really can't bear to live anymore, my pain is too much."
I'd be a broken shell of a human for a very very long time. But I'd have to come to grips with it.
I'd probably be a hypocrite, in that moment. I'd probably cry and stomp my feet and fight the good fight, in trying to convince her otherwise, "Do it for me, ma. Keep living, keep fighting."
I've talked a lot of people out of suicide. Or, tried to. A lot of it's been online, so I'm not sure how successful I was with some of them.
So I can see your point, I guess.
Things are messier in practice than in theory.
But on an intellectual level I would *have* to respect her right to that option, although my mother's kind of staunchly against it and told me she'd never elect to die, no matter how much worse her condition gets.
And how many options are out there? /:
I'll try anything, pretty much first.
I agree that that should pretty much go with the territory, having had tried everything else first.
If my Medicaid gets approved, I'm ready to once again be a human guinea pig in hopes of getting better.
I think it's scary to go there.
That's eugenics, or killing off an entire populous that's considered subhuman, an underclass of less-thans who are just wasting space.
Eugenics were popular rhetoric for a long time throughout history, actually. Even Helen Keller was pro-eugenics, although I think maybe it had to do with her disabilities, and so arguably she was on the side of ethics. Although from reading her diatribe on the whole thing, I think it was more hate and ignorance-based and that she just shared the common beliefs of her day and age.
It's very frightening indeed, in the wrong hands, or in the wrong context, or both.
"idiot" and "lunatic" were both terms once used to describe absolutely anyone with either a low-IQ or a mental illness or in some cases, a physical illness. People were very blunt and insensitive about such things. "Malformed" was a common word to describe crippled persons, which I think is sort of vile and mean.
I can see what you mean, though, for sure.
Historically, this power and this dialogue has been abused and convoluted.
It's been used for profit and for gain, i.e. Hitler's idea that there's a master race and schizophrenics, gypsies, homosexuals, Jews, and Slavs were not a part of that master race, and so they had to go. (Shit, I would've been executed on the grounds of my sexuality, mental illness, and mixed race, then. Don't think he'd take too kindly to a bipolar, bisexual Cherokee/German with a Seminole/Indian girlfriend.)
So. I get your point.
I'm saying this as a means of empowerment. Weird as it seems that this conversation could be anything other than depressing as shit for all involved.
I'm saying, this is our illness, these are our rights. Let's take the dialogue back for ourselves, on all fronts, despite our differing opinions.
This conversation is one for educated individuals without bias or hate, and for mentally-ill, suffering persons, and those in the lives of said mentally-ill, suffering persons. This shouldn't be left to dictators.
Plus Hitler was just kind of on a rampage his whole life for having been rejected. He was basically the fuckboy of his time, and had the power to wield his misdirected aggression however he saw fit.
Hitler by pure definition was fucking insane.
Plus he was on amphetamines, and arguably other substances, which don't help a temper, or delusions.