Lithium also causes hypothyroid in some people and would wonder if Lithium Orotate would do the same. Why tamper with your metabolism or perhaps inducing another auto immune disorder ( like happened to me).? I know I would be getting my blood monitored if I decided to try this out-but of course I never will.

Very informative Fish!

thanks - given that the active ingredient is still lithium then yes the thyroid problems would still be a possibility.

It's said you need to take a lot less if you take orotate but as the article shows that may not be so - coupled with the problems with elimination with orotate it might actually be worse for your thyroid.

Wasn't orotate touted by some Canadian shyster a while back? As I recall it was totally debunked. It's sad that people do that.

Tommy, I think you are probably right.

it's fascinating when you really examine the claims that are sometimes made and follow them back to their original source. Usually the original science is ok(ish) but it is the way it then gets interperated by people to try and influence others.

I think some of them genuinely believe what they say but that doesn't make them any less dangerous or culpable.

Interesting M... Lithium never did much for me however I think it's still considered the drug of choice... TY...x

I wish I could try it but I've always had thyroid issues. :(

In higher than intended doses, it is toxic. that is true of all meds.
very few have ever reported toxicity with ortotate.

https://www.aacp.com/Pages.asp?AID=11071&issue=February%202013&page=C&UID=

Sigmund2, the paper you quote supports the points made in my article.

"There are no studies evaluating the efficacy or safety of lithium orotate for BD (Bipolar Disorder)"

and

"Similar to other dietary supplements, the distribution and use of lithium orotate is unregulated. Patients may not be aware of possible toxicity and unknown, yet assumed, long-term health risks of using lithium orotate on their own, without proper monitoring of thyroid and kidney functions."

The paper then refers out to papers I read and discussed in my post.

We don't know what the "intended dose" is. No one has done a study with humans with bipolar.

The person referred to was taking 240mg of lithium orotate a day. In the study on alcoholics it was 150mg. My own estimate on the assumption that the single paper looking at dosing rats would be that the dose for people with bipolar would be in the range 200-400 mg per day.

When you take it at that level the variability in dosage you get from the non medical grade lithium orotate tablets combined with the findings that the kidneys (in rats) have a problem eliminating the lithium delivered by that method means that you could easily go toxic very quickly.

How the sellers of lithium orotate ended up with a recommended does of 4.5mg or 25mg is unknown. It does not match which the one paper they are keen to cite. It also does not match that the tablets are usualy 120mg - 130mg of lithium orotate - it may be that they are referring to the amount of lithium - in which case the amount of elemental lithium in medical lithium carbonate is actually probably not that much different as orotate is a much heavier ion than carbonate. I've just spotted this and will need to research that further.

However, I suspect they plucked a figure out of the air - but that does mean that while the danger of toxicity may be reduced they are not getting sufficinet lithium for it to have the desired effect. Those of us who are bipolar and who have taken lithium know that there is quite a narrow band of effective dose - too little and it has no effect.

Maybe have a look again at my post?

Also as I have all the evidence there it might be better to debate the point there - this post was merely to alert people of that post's presence.

i did not get that from the paper. i got that there was little evidence of toxicity. it would be quite apparent with the few studies if there were.
my dad, who is a researcher, happens to agree.
choose what you like but it is everyone's choice to not dump tons of lithium carbonate into their system.
i choose not to.

Sigmund, those quotes were the key ones from the paper.

Just to add - there seems to be some mixing up of how dose is expressed. Sellers tend to talk about the amount of lithium element / ions there is in a tablet whereas the medical doseage is expressed in the amount of lithium compounds. Those are two different things. I will do a comparison when I have time.

I got the clue when I read about people taking 480mg of lithium orotate tablets every day. Another clue was that the tablets are actually usually 120 or 130 mg each so it would be difficult for people to take the recommended dose of 4.5mg or 25mg.

I'll do the analysis and added it into the treatment thread.