There's not much that I can say to this. You won't believe me anyhow.

You don't want counseling so that leaves little else.

Voltaire, you might be surprised how Many of us self-hate. Including myself. :/

It's Hard; it's the hardest of All my personal battles, to truly "love" myself all the time.

There are ways to work on it, but it takes Time to do it right...can you think of a time when you Did like yourself? Can you remember it?

Even when a few circumstances change, Voltaire - like your health - not That much changes, when you go from liking yourself okay, to hating yourself....it's about Perception. Truly

If you'll remind me, I'll go into a lengthy dissertation later in PM :p (there's a Lot about it)

I Love You Voltaire :)

MA

Sun I'll get to you first, MaryAnne you next, (following the order of the comments)

First off Sun well uh... okay. I didn't mean to sound closed off. I wasn't trying to be all, "Don't bother telling me anything".

I come off like "You can't tell me nothin' " but I'm not really that way. I have a very blunt affect here and there.

I'd gratefully accept any feedback. We're all here for each other.

Simply, I was trying to be frank in that I just... kind of am at a point to where praise does little for me.

I've endured some verbal abuse lately. I can't even talk about it with my own freakin' family because it was by another family member, so it's like, "You two work it out amongst yourselves like mature adults, plus you started it" so it drowns out all else right now.

And she/they think my "emotional/verbal abuse" which was legitimate mistreatment by an ex is kind of laughable. They don't say it like that, but I know.

I'm just numb. I'm sorry. Figured it'd be best to be honest about it.

Again though, don't feel silenced by my bluntness.

I would never want my bluntness and harsh demeanor to silence another human being.

Everyone's words are valuable and deserve to be spoken, given they aren't needlessly vitriolic.

To elaborate on counseling, this sliding-scale-fee clinic I go to... the appointments are kind of far-out and I rely on others for rides, unfortunately, so my "counseling appointments" just kind of never happen. Additionally I'm mistrustful of counselors, but not nearly as much as I was when I was a teenager.

As in, if I made it to an appointment, I wouldn't like, sit there and sulk.

But yea. Fire away, if you've got somethin' for me. I'm open to it. I respect and care about you, Sun.

MaryAnne- I know it's not my place to say "How could you hate yourself" because it's a rhetorical and patronizing question, but I'm over here like, "really?" You think deeply on things and have a good heart, so. I don't see why you would. Dx

Yes. A few times. I'm a little wonky off of my medication right now, it's too much to say. Feeling "alive" (or manic, I can't differentiate) for long stretches of time, for no good reason- just when I did. Being 100 pounds. Getting my GED. Right before I got my GED was a good time, too.

During a manic episode I had in maybe 2013, I was a student, and I was doing well. I had a strong, uncanny feeling I'd see the girl I'd fallen in love with again. When I hadn't in years, and had no other reason to believe it'd happen. And it did.

When I feel "spiritual" I feel very alive and like I am loving myself, but the more pragmatic part of me says that's just a manifestation of mania.

From my personal experiences I tend to notice it coincides with longer manic periods and seems to be sporadic, and unattainable in the perpetual sense.

All life is phases and cycles.

So I agree with you, I think. (x

I will remind you!

The counseling/therapy thing doesn't work unless you want to do it. I didn't want any part of it in my twenties because I was still trying to figure myself out and didn't want someone else to come along and do it. But I was ready for it in my mid thirties, after I had experienced soooooo much and knew who I was (finally!)

I know that doesn't help you Voltaire right now, but I'm trying to say it's a big life process. Be gentler with yourself. You have many admirable qualities....your intelligence and deep thinker qualities for sure! And all that 'image' stuff, yeah, it's complicated and complex. It's a strange world we live in where beauty and perfection is a messed up thing. Don't look at pop culture for your baseline of Beaut or whatever you wanna call it. I don't even know if you do that but if so, all that stuff is is smoke and mirrors. And lots of Photoshop.

You are a verbal explorer. Keep writing and working things out and you'll figure out more and more. But yeah, be kinder and gentler to yourself as you do so.

Automatic thoughts just come at us... I struggle with the same thing and they can literally come at us thousands of times a day that's why therapy is so important for this of the cognitive type

You literally have to change your thinking process... I can't afford it either... There is a lot of help online though if you wanted to try it that way... For quite a while I find changes don't seem real... Good thoughts seem false until they actually become good.. In other words we can change our thinking with a lot of work

Big hug for you sweetie...xo
http://www.beckinstitute.org/history-of-cbt/

I struggle with self hate, too, Voltaire. Sometimes, I think it is part of the human condition.

Just wanted you to know, I love you, too. You already know that, though. Wish you could see you through my eyes for a minute.

Life itself is a journey, a process, a constant battle. Take every win and cherish it.

About the verbal abuse - I really do think you would benefit from some assertiveness training. Sometimes, it's hard to get away from that kind of abuse, especially when it is a loved family member. Counseling could help you learn to deal with that and protect yourself from it.

Always wishing you the best.