I'm not one to forgive. I hold a grudge and make sure that I don't allow a person to ever get close enough to me for me to be hurt again. There does need to be some closure to keep ourselves from going crazy and I've found that following the grieving process is very helpful. I try to take care of my side and determine what I did wrong so I can fix that. I try not to be obsessive and put things in perspective.
But we can't fix other people. We can't expect equal responsibility, all we can do is take care of ourselves. If you're angry go through the Anger Workbook. That's useful.

words of wisdom up there ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Hi Bike~~

Sorry you're in turmoil about forgiveness. It can literally eat you alive from the inside out.

I struggled with forgiveness until I began working with a counselor who said, "Forgiveness is releasing the other person from my right to punish them." It really took me a while to wrap my brain around it but here's how it played out for me.

I had so much anger and resentment toward my mother for things she had done or not done during my childhood which included humiliation, failing to protect me from molestation, lack of nurturing, etc. Well into my adulthood this anger and resentment kept playing over and over .... and I kept adding more evidence with current things she did and said to confirm my conclusion -- that she was a lousy parent.

I knew that being a lousy parent was never her intention but due to her lack of skill and awareness, that's what it was. She would or could never acknowledge or accept her part in any of it. I exhausted my self trying to even the score, or get her to fess up, or even try to undertstand a teeny bit of what the reality of being her daughter was like for me versus the fantasy she had concocted. It didn't happen and I was not moving forward.

I did decide that I would forgive her -- release her from my right to punish her. (Kinda like God forgives us for our sins.) The slate would be clean and we would move forward. And we've done that. I don't keep any kind of list of her transgressions since the forgiveness .... I just know what kinds of things she will do/say so I protect myself and my family from it.

Sorry this is so long, Bike, but the people who hurt you may never acknowledge it nor apologize for it. But you can give yourself the greatest give by forgiving them and moving forward. Best wishes to you!

wow you all have really great ideas on forgiveness, ds peeps are so smart :)

i just wanted to say that i recently started picturing putting a crown of flowers on the head of any nemesis and it is helping a lot. for some odd reason doing something so nice for someone makes me break down and forgive them for being a douche bag. kind of like they have no clue how fucked in the head they are, but i will be the better person no matter what and i will let go of their offenses towards me. i dont want to talk to them mind you, but they look fab with their scowled faces and crown of flowers, good stuff.

this doesnt happen right away, first i get angry...

and i agree with gina about being able to admit your own wrongs.. very powerful for a person to be able to truly see what they do wrong by others and apologize for it. I see it rarely, some people would rather die than to apologize it seems.

Hmm. This thread strikes a chord with me.

Are there levels of forgiveness? And are there situation in which perhaps NOT forgiving is better alternative?

I ask this because I've got one hell of a 'grudge' toward my ex, and my three supposed best friends who were screwing him behind my back (and I mean literally, in my home whilst my children and I slept) for two years.

This was a discovery made nearly three years ago, and for the most part I'd say I've moved on. I'm happy about being single and starting a new life. But man oh man if you only knew what I journey I've traveled to get here.... and having those I loved and trusted the most destroy my life and above all, my children's stability... well, it's that anger and resentment that has literally held me together, given me the courage to peruse independence, and to respect myself again.

I don't know... maybe it's a process and I'm just not there yet.
Hmm

Unforgiveness is the poison we take hoping it will kill the other person.

I think forgiveness is important for ourselves, including forgiving people who have wronged us and do not seem to care. But that does NOT mean allowing them to continue to hurt us.

Boundaries are very important in relationships. Once we establish boundaries without anger, then it helps us realize that we are not responsible for other people's issues, and to try and understand that whatever the reasons for the problem. As for dumping on the friends, just don't. Write it in a journal and get over it and move on. You're hurting yourself and your friendships if you don't!

I think you're confusing 'wanting to change' with 'wanting things to be different.'

You definitely seem to want the latter, but I see much less desire to accomplish the former.

Talking about your problems ad nauseam to the point where your friends are so tired of listening to you that they don't even want you to come back does NOT make you an extrovert.

An extrovert is outgoing and feels best when in the company of others. But they mix in well and do NOT tend to alienate those around them by dominating the conversation with topics that others do not want to hear anymore.

You want them to understand your frustration and see your point of view and support you.

Want, want, want.

What about what THEY want? They want you to give it a rest and quit bothering them with it. What about THEIR frustration? Frustration with you.

Why is what YOU want more important than what THEY want? They've listened to you for a year now. YOU'RE the one stuck in the past.

It's unhealthy and unfair of you to demand the same from the others around you.
They're doing the healthy thing. It's been a year and they're more than ready to stop focusing on it.

If you want to waste more of your life being upset about it, that's your right to choose to do so.

You're friends have made it crystal clear that they're tired of you talking about it and they don't want to hear about it anymore, but you seem to think that they should keep doing it because YOU 'need' to talk about it.

You want those other people to admit that they're just as guilty of wrongdoing as you are.
And you want the people who hurt you to apologive to you.

But you say they don't think they're at fault at all. That they think it's all YOUR fault.

Well, if that's what they think then why the Hell WOULD they want to apologize to you or say that they're half to blame?

In fact, if they think that it's all your fault, maybe they want YOU to admit you're wrong and for YOU to apologize to THEM.

Why not? You think that they should do what YOU want them to do in order for things to be right.

But your feelings are no more precious than theirs. They've got just the same amount of right to want YOU to admit you were wrong and to apologize.

But does their thinking so mean that you should do it?

You want everybody to see everything the way you do and think that that's the right way.

Theyv'e got just as much right to think what they want as you do to think what YOU want.

The solution is not for them to change and be and do everything you want them to.

The solution is respecting THEIR point of view and acknowledge that they have a right to see things the way they want to, just like you do.

You see things as being the objective truth when they're not. They're only your perceptions.

"forgiveness is the fragrance a violet sprays on the heel that crushes it" - Mark Twian

for myself my ability to forgive goes back to my faith in God. Usually while you are obsessing and being unhappy with what that person did,they have moved on and are not giving a second thought to what they did to you.so another word they are still stealing your joy and live goes on for them.

why give them that power??? it clearly states in the Bible that bc we have been forgiven we must too forgive. it doesnt mean you forget or let that or any person do that to you again.it makes you stronger and more aware.but you need to let it go and let God take care of that person bc only God has final jugdement over all of us

even if you dont believe have faith enough to know that what comes around goes around and that person will receive their share.bottom line is do not waste another momnet of your life letting that person rob you of your life.and that does not mean you need to resolve things or forget.forgivenes feels like 1,000 lbs off your shoulders and you will be blessed for it. best to you!!
gina

I use forgiveness alot. It works very well for me.

I forgive to let go only many times. When I do that I forgive but don't approve of how I have been treated. I forgive so I don't build resentment since I have done that enough through my life and have been working hard in therapy many years to undue that previous damage that resentment has cased me.

Here is the catch....I put up boundaries when someone has hurt me. But I still forgive and I even have learned to wish them well because usually when someone hurts someone else ..that person is in pain. So I put up boundaries. Like for ex husband I had to tell him last year that since he decided to move back from the south (due to running away from his sentencing for a DUI) back to Ohio..I told him I would not take my daughter to see him. I said it is his full responsibility to come over here and get a ride from someone in his family to come see her. He really tried to use guilt on me...but I was angry to see him walk away again from his responsibilities. But I forgave for my own self. And I set up clear cut boundaries and took the lip service he tried to give me and stood firm. That was tough and I have only recently learned to do this. But it is an example of how to forgive. I even now wish him well. He really isn't a terrible guy he just needs to admit he has a permanent problem with alcohol and depression..but he won't. And I can't do anything about that.

Hope that example helps.

Forgiveness comes within, you have to forgive yourself for your side and realize they need to take care of theirs and if they aren't going to, then it is on them, not you. A lot of people just won't admit to any wrong doing, they like to do the "blame" game.

tommy is right we can't fix others, only ourselves. Good luck.

eph, i have been there.. it was a long time ago, and he was screwing all my friends, in my car on my couch, it sucked, just to get my head clear and not be totally messed up took a couple of years. eventually forgiveness happened, but it wasnt easy. and after 13 years of being away from him, i couldnt trust him still, even tho i wanted to and he is still loved much, some things cant be undone.

i think forgiveness is the hate you harbor towards someone, but its not forgetting, and its not trusting them again.. it is only how you feel about them when you think of them, does it still eat you? are you still reliving their harm.. or are you moving on?

my last husband was downright criminal, it has been almost 2 years since he destroyed our family.. will be this summer. but it feels like 2 months. I used to have these really bad nightmares about him. but now i have dreams that i am ambivalent. feels good. i know he is sick.

oh that helps forgiveness too. knowing that the person that did that to you has issues, big ones. people dont hurt people like that unless they are extremely narcissistic, or manic lol :) and now, i have to wonder why i always seem to attract hurtful people. more self discovery, fun :/

I am honestly struggling with forgiveness also. This is toward my youngest son. I am tired of rehashing it with friends add nauseum. I have decided to have a plan of ACTON so I can quit as someone else stated taking the poison and waiting for the other person to die from it. It is only harming me.

My plan of action is as follows:

Sweep my side of the street (what is my part in the issue what did I do to harm him i.e. not loving him unconditionally.

Write about it pages and pages NOT not he computer but with pen and paper. I do not ever get to the bottom of anything by typing it out only by writing by hand do my feelings dig deep and present themselves for examination.

I pray for willingness to forgive. Right now I am irritated with my son. I want to change him. Is this reasonable NO! Can I change him NO. Can I change myself YES eventually I can if I work hard at it. I can WISH he would change until I am blue in the face but it's not going to happen. I have had this resentment for going on 24 years. It's not the longest resentment I've held (that being 28 years). This is making ME mentally unhealthy.

I am also going to talk to my therapist about it tomorrow and I am working with someone I know whose son does not fit the "norm" either. She never wanted to change her son and I WISH I never wanted to change mine but wishing does not make a thing so.

I think you have gotten a lot of good opinions and ideas on places to start the forgiving process.

What can it hurt to try what everyone suggests one by one? (rhetorical question). If I honestly try these suggestions and they do not work for me then fine at least I will know I've tried.

I think part of my problem is I have been unwilling to let go of the resentment and outright hate for the way my son is.

I am making progress though I've actually hugged him on Friday and on Sunday (left town on Friday came back on Sunday). He LET me hug him. Sorry I digress.

Please try the suggestions offered here. HUGS.