just out of curiosity what did she have to say to explain the sh and the other myriad of symptoms? sounds to me like a second opinion might be in order! do butterfly thoughts come on prescription? how's raspberry?

'anything to say to explain'

When I told her about the psychotic symptoms she said 'we know you have a high fantasy level'. SO basically, yeah,, the voices and all that stuff are all in my head but that's not supposed to be of great concern because that's how my brain works. I almost laughed. I'm not going back to see her. We didn't make another appt and I'm not planning on ever making another. The one good think she said was to make sure i have a plan in place for when I'm out of therapy in the summer. Find a temporary therapist pr a shrink I can go see if I feel a moment of crisis coming on. I was tempted to ask if the positive thoughts wouldn't help then but I decided to just let it slide. Raspberry is ok, I hope. I hoping my mood swings aren't doing much harm. I'm trying to make up for that by resting more and eating properly.

Psychosis is losing touch with reality so that your inner world becomes the world.

The difference between imagination and psychosis is that with psychosis you think it's coming from outside. You don't know that it's unreal.

Same for the hallucinations - you think they are real.

some stuf on borderline and bipolar.

Basically bipolar is regarded as being chemical in nature, borderline is more an ingrained inappropriate thinking/ behavioural response to relationships as a result of childhood experiences.

Bipolar mood cycles are akin to taking drugs or even drinking - while there is a set of general symptoms exactly how it expresses is down the person - so an elevated mood may be happy, angry, bad. Think good trips and bad trips. Or angery drunks vs happy ones. And then there is a major come down (the depression.). Look at it another way it's a hardware vulnerability that causes major software failures.

Borderline is about trying to build relationships - sometimes that is by trying to "buy" the relationship. If the relationships show any sign of failure this can lead to major frustration and fear. Abandonment is avoided at all costs so relationships tend to be black or white.

Borderline treatment is about trying to undo the faulty childhood programming and finding better adult tools for dealing with relationships , ie it's a software issue.

Something on spotting the differences between the two - starting with the link because the formatting may mess up.

Borderline vs Bipolar

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/stop-walking-eggshells/201003/three-easy-ways-differentiate-bipolar-and-borderline-disorders

Three Easy Ways to Differentiate Bipolar and Borderline Disorders
Bipolar or Borderline? A widely-used diagnostic is getting it wrong.
Published on March 25, 2010 by Randi Kreger in Stop Walking on Eggshells

While bipolar disorder (formerly manic depression) and borderline personality disorders share some clinical features-primarily unstable moods and impulsive actions--they are two different diagnoses with different treatments (although psychiatristsmay use medications to treat BPD as well as bipolar). They're even categorized differently in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-IV-TR). Bipolar is grouped in Axis I, clinical syndromes, and BPD is parked squarely in Axis II, personality (at least for now).
Yet that doesn't keep them from getting confused. Anecdotally, many family members tell me their loved one has been diagnosed with bipolar by a clinician when it appears to them that borderline personality disorder as described in the DSM-IV-TR seems to be a much better fit.
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Now we've learned there may be more to this than a simple confusion.
A study from Rhode Island Hospital has shown that a widely-used screening tool for bipolar disorder may incorrectly indicate borderline personality disorder rather than bipolar disorder.
In the article that appears online ahead of print in the Journal of Clinical Psychiatry, the researchers question the effectiveness of the Mood Disorder Questionnaire (MDQ). The MDQ is the most widely-used and studied screening tool for bipolar disorder. It is a brief questionnaire that assesses whether a patient displays some of the characteristic behaviors of bipolar disorder.
The research team interviewed nearly 500 patients using the Structured Clinical Interview for Diagnostic Statistical Manual IV (DSM-IV) and the Structured Interview for DSM-IV for personality disorders. The patients were also asked to complete the MDQ.
The research team then scored the questionnaires and found that patients with a positive indication for bipolar disorder using the MDQ were as likely to be diagnosed with borderline personality disorder as bipolar disorder when using the structured clinical interview.
Further, their findings indicate that borderline personality disorder was four times more frequently diagnosed in the group who screened positive on the MDQ.
Principal investigator Mark Zimmerman, MD, director of outpatient psychiatry at Rhode Island Hospital, says that these findings raise caution for using the MDQ in clinical practice because of how differently the disorders are treated. (You can find more info here: http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2010-03/l-iir032510.php)
BPD and bipolar are often misdiagnosed as each other. Some people diagnosed with BPD actually have bipolar; the reverse is also true.
While only a qualified clinician can make a diagnosis of one or the other (or if both are present) there are three simple ways to distinguish bipolar disorder from borderline personality disorder.
Bipolar disorder causes dramatic mood swings, from overly "high" and/or irritable to sad and hopeless, and then back again, often with periods of normal mood in between. Severe changes in energy and behavior go along with these changes in mood. The periods of highs and lows are called episodes of mania and depression.
A cycle is the period of time it takes for a person to go through one episode of mania and one of depression. The frequency and duration of these cycles vary from person to person, from once every five years to once every three months. People with a subtype of bipolar (rapid--cycling bipolar) may cycle more quickly, but much less quickly than people with BPD (shifts can even last minutes/seconds).
According to Dr. Friedel, director of the BPD program at Virginia Commonwealth University, there are two main differences between BPD and bipolar disorder:
1. People with BPD cycle much more quickly, often several times a day.
2. The moods in people with BPD are more dependent, either positively or negatively, on what's going on in their life at the moment. Anything that might smack of abandonment (however far fetched) is a major trigger.
3. In people with BPD, the mood swings are more distinct. Marsha M. Linehan, professor of psychology at the University of Washington, says that while people with bipolar disorder swing between all-encompassing periods of mania and major depression, the mood swings typical in BPD are more specific. She says, "You have fear going up and down, sadness going up and down, anger up and down, disgust up and down, and love up and down."

Randi Kreger
Author, "The Essential Family Guide to Borderline Personality Disorder: New Tips and Tools to Stop Walking on Eggshells"
(Available at www.BPDCentral.com)

The negative thoughts are usually 'automatic' iam so you aren't making yourself think them they come at you and often thousands of times in a very short period so they are overwhelming

Bipolar is chemical and Borderline is personality

Bipolar is episodic so there will be an episode of mania or depression followed by usually long periods of stability... A personality disorder will entail your whole personality and there are often ups and downs all the time

There is usually very black and white thinking with borderline... A person can't see all of the greys

There are also people who have both... They symptoms can be treated iam... Meds are used ongoing though for Bipolar.. Borderline will use meds to help the symptoms however the main treatment is therapy to help change thought patterns and behaviour...x

Thanks, Fish. That was helpful. I can say that there have been times when 'The moods in people with BPD are more dependent, either positively or negatively, on what's going on in their life at the moment. Anything that might smack of abandonment (however far fetched) is a major trigger' held true for me but there are also times when 'dramatic mood swings, from overly "high" and/or irritable to sad and hopeless, and then back again, often with periods of normal mood in between. Severe changes in energy and behavior go along with these changes in mood' applies. I'll just go see someone else and get a second opinion or a more definitive dx. I did have a shitty childhood so I can see where the BPD dx would easily fit plus yes, I have the symptoms but it's also easy to see how the BP dx fits. Bleh. I wish they were treated the same way then I'd be less concerned.

Thanks Sun. I just want to be better and a little more stable, you know? That of course means finding the right dx so I can find the right treatment. Having two docs tell me two different things makes that so hard. My tdoc wants me medicated but can't prescribe meds, my pdoc wants me in talk therapy but doesn't do talk therapy. So I'm sent to pdoc by tdoc to try to get meds and I'm sent to tdoc by pdoc for talk therapy. Is this what it's like to be a child of divorce?

Your symptoms can be treated even if it is borderline iam... There are many people with borderline on meds to help the symptoms even though the main change for them will come from therapy... Both disorders use many of the same meds although not so much AD's in bipolar
A psychiatrist will most often make a psych diagnosis... I would ask your tdoc and pdoc to talk if there's a problem however I don't understand why symptoms aren't being treated??.. That doesn't make sense to me... They should be

another thing to be aware of - no one likes to be abandoned. Alot of people over react in relationships. So it's a matter of degree.

That why we need clinical psychologoists, psychiatrists and maybe therapists who can spot the difference between someone who is not coping with relationships and where we slap on a label of "Borderline".

It can take a while to make a firm diagnosis iam.. .A lot of our diagnosis have changed over time including mine

I started with depression, anxiety disorder panic disorder and eventually bipolar 2 in a mixed state...

. Again though the symptoms can be treated to help you through if it isn't bipolar due to therapy taking quite some time to make changes

some pdocs are a bit unwilling when it comes to Borderline - in some health systems there is no money in it for them, others just don't have the skills and I get the feeling that borderline has a bit of a bad reputation amongst "professionals" - partly because there is a relationship in there and it can turn sour if they don't manage it right.

i keep asking if they'll meet and have a proper discussion about me so they can come to some kind of agreement or maybe we could all have a session together and clear some stuff up. I don't know if talk therapy is different for BPs than it is for Borderlines. Are different techniques used/taught? How much different are the treatment methods for each cos I think that's a big issue here. If both are treated differently then each of my doctors is treating me for a different thing. My tdoc is treating me like I'm bipolar, my pdoc is treating or rather, not treating me, cos I'm borderline in her eyes. This needs to end.

Well my relationship is about to turn sour. I feel like dropping both my docs and just finding someONE else. Just one person who can diagnose and treat and prescribe and talk because this confusion is hell. I don't know what's being treated or if anything is being treated. Sometimes I feel like I'm making progress and then I feel like I'm back at square one or worse.