Believers in Jesus Christ. Community Group
We all know how Jesus' blood has cleansed us, now we continue to be blessed by His actions when our sins were erased by His blood. Thank you Jesus!
IF JESUS DIED FOR 'ALL' SIN TO BE FORGIVEN, AND IF ONE ACCEPTED THE FREE GIFT OF SALVATION THROUGH BELIEVING IN JESUS CHRIST, THEN WHY IS SIN STILL PREACHED AGAINST SINCE IT'S ALL BEEN FORGIVEN ANYWAY THROUGH CHRIST'S DEATH, BARRIEL, AND RESURRECTION? ISN'T THAT LIKE TRYING TO PAY FOR A MEAL THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN PAID FOR? IF IT HAS ALL BEEN FORGIVEN ANYWAY THROUGH THE PRECIOUS BLOOD OF CHRIST, WHAT'S THE POINT OF TELLING CHRISTIANS THAT THEY SHOULDN'T SIN, OR LOOK DOWN AT THEM BECAUSE THEY DO?
We have to remember that Rev. was written mostly symbollically and not fully literally.
The Great White Throne in Rev. 20 v 11 IS the judgement seat. Those other verses are talking about the end of the millenium at the second death for those who were alive at Christ's return and died in that time. There is no real "lake of fire". That is written
figuratively. Christ will rule the earth for 1000 years (the millenium) to set up his father's Kingdom. Those verses are talking about the end of that 1000 years before the actual Kingdom starts when God will be in all and in all. Death and sin will be no more
You mentioned that they would be two judgements. Are there any other verses that mention that? The scriptures talk about only one judgement and that is when Christ comes back to raise the dead and judge.
Hope this helps...
Again, Paul is writing to the Christians at Corinth which would indicate only Christians appear before the judgment seat of Christ.
There are four crowns mentioned in the New Testament that Christians can receive.
1Th:2:19: For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?
2Tm:4:8: Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
Jas:1:12: Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
1Pe:5:4: And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.
Now we have the judgment of God which is the Great White Throne.
Ro:2:2: But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.
Christ comes right before the tribulation to take His Bride the Church out of the world before God sends even years of tribulation.
1Th:4:17: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Heb:6:2: Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
2Pe:2:9: The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
2Pe:3:7: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
Jude:1:15: To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
1. Nowhere does this pasage state that the saints are taken to heaven. The evidence is the other way, since "the Lord shall descend from heaven"
2. "And so shall we ever be with the Lord." Where? On the earth, not in heaven. This is the testimony of the Apostle Paul elsewhere in his writings.
3. Even if the passage be taken literally, the meeting of the Lord and the saints is said to be in the air. But the air extends upwards for 600 miles (a generous estimate). Are the saints to spend eternity suspended in mid-air? If it is contended that the saints only meet the Lord and are then taken up to heaven, then proof that such is the case is required. It does not come from this passage.
4. What is meant by "the clouds"? Clouds in the bible refer to a great number of people or saints, which ever it is talking about. Support for this interpretation is found in Heb. 12:1 where a similar image is used: "Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses. . .
Christ is coming to stay on earth, he is decending, not ascending. There is no reason for us or Christ to go back "up" to anywhere. We are not going to heaven, the bible doesnt teach that at all. Our reward is on earth. Christ says he will give us our reward (which is eternal life) when he returns to earth.
We are going to be forever with Christ on earth, not in the air. That is written figuratively. I wasnt sure if you thought you were going "UP" somewhere........
Joh:17:24: Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
Eph:1:4: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
1Pe:1:20: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
God knows all. Right. Past, present, and future. God knew before the foundation of the world who would accept Jesus as his personal savior. Right?
God chose us because He knew who would be saved from Adam to the last person who accepts Jesus. Right?
We are talking apples and oranges. Earth has time. Heaven does not? In earth's time I remember the day I accepted Jesus and asked Him to forgive me of all my sins. Did God only forgive our sins at that point in our time. What about future sins? I John 1:9 tells us to ask forgiveness; to be saved again, no, to renew our fellowship with God. Do we ever lose our salvation; no. Why, Jesus paid it all and said it is finished.
I think you misunderstood me. OK.
Roger
If all is forgiven, then why does Paul tell us to ask God to forgive our sins when we sin? What is the point of judgement when Christ returns to set up the Kingdom on earth?
John 17 is talking about how God always loved Jesus, even before he was born. He was in God's plan and mind.
1 John 1 v 9 tells us just like it is written, if we ask God for forgiveness, He will forgive us.
And so on, I'm trying to figure out why you put those verses in on that subject we were talking about???
When Jesus died, all of the world's sins from past, present, and future "were not" forgiven.
Paul says, be like Christ. God has given us commandments thru Jesus.
Why would we have commandments if our sins are allready forgiven??????? I dont understand why you would think that. We still need to go before the judgement seat at Christ's return.
Christ died so our sins COULD be forgiven. Christ is God's plan for redemption.
Christ is our way to salvation.
Acts 22 v 16 And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.â
ACTS 3 V 19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord,
ACTS 2 V 38 Then Peter said to them, âRepent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Remissions of sins means that your sins will be taken away or forgiven.
If all of our sins are forgiven past, present and future, then Christ and Paul wouldnt tell us that our sins would be forgiven at baptism. They would have been forgiven at the cross, and that's not the case at all.
Peter said.
Ac:1:9: And when he (Jesus) had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken UP; and a CLOUD received him out of their sight.
Ac:1:10: And while they looked stedfastly toward HEAVEN as he went UP, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
Ac:1:11: Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing UP into HEAVEN? this same Jesus, which is taken UP from you into HEAVEN, shall SO COME in like manner as ye have seen him go into HEAVEN.
Paul said.
Col:3:24: Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.
Peter said.
1Pe:1:4: To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
I respect your right to interpet the Bible as you believe it to be. All I ask is that you do that for me. No debates or arugments - please.
Come again in like manner. This is not the second Coming of Christ. This is when Christ takes His bride out of the world before God's wrath and judgment fall.
Paul said:
1Th:4:16: For the Lord himself shall DESCEND FROM HEAVEN with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th:4:17: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught UP together with them in the CLOUDS, to meet the Lord in the AIT: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Do you know at what height there is no more air? We know there is no air in outerspace.
Peter said.
Ac:1:9: And when he (Jesus) had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken UP; and a CLOUD received him out of their sight.
Ac:1:10: And while they looked stedfastly toward HEAVEN as he went UP, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
Ac:1:11: Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing UP into HEAVEN? this same Jesus, which is taken UP from you into HEAVEN, shall SO COME in like manner as ye have seen him go into HEAVEN.
Paul said.
Col:3:24: Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.
Peter said.
1Pe:1:4: To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
I respect your right to interpet the Bible as you believe it to be. All I ask is that you do that for me. No debates or arugments - please.
Come again in like manner. This is not the second Coming of Christ. This is when Christ takes His bride out of the world before God's wrath and judgment fall.
Paul said:
1Th:4:16: For the Lord himself shall DESCEND FROM HEAVEN with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th:4:17: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught UP together with them in the CLOUDS, to meet the Lord in the AIT: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Do you know at what height there is no more air? We know there is no air in outerspace
1Co:1:17: For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
Col:2:14: Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;