not I said the fly but i really would like to

Continually I tell my wife she must understand the difference between wanting something with all your heart and actually being able to function. I want go to concerts...can't, not that I havn't tried. In this thread, I want a good friend but always have to hold them at arms length. As a boy I tried to be a follower but always found people dissappointing, I tried to be a leader, and in the military was "sucessful" at it but I secretly hated it, hated them for always bothering me, for being too weak-minded to guide themselves. I also was proud of them when they did well as a parent but the dichotomy wore on me. I have never just been "one of the boys"...those were the jackasses that tortured me as a kid. There is this thing about A/S people, seeing in certain absolutes. There is a military saying that if two people are in a boat, one has to be in charge...well that's kinda how we percieve friendships...I don't want to be in charge and therefore responsible for this person and I most certainly don't want to follow them. I'm not saying its a justified view, that's just how it is perceived. Again with the perception, observation affects the equation, Heisenberg.

Mr. Grannus
I understand. The first few dozen concerts were difficult for me. But you know what? A few nights I ago I danced under a bowl of stars. (the sky I mean, outdoors) I decided my want, in this case my love for ceratin music would outweigh anxiety or any other demons.
Anxiety is not a friend. It will not override me.
In fact I realized i am but a blur in a sea of heads at concerts. i wish you luck there. I can only attend them with a certain support person. I wouldn't think of going with just anyone. And I have to be in the thick of things, standing so that you disappear.
I ruled certain friendships too, alas.
Today I flounder.
Thanks for responding. Don't give up your wants, keep trying and it may become routine. I want many things too with all my heart, doing is another thing entirely and being smart means recognizing the difference. but however never trying means never knowing. Failing many times for me means developing a sense of humor, a rat hitting the same false wall and deciding whether I'll try another time or decide it is never going to happen.
K

never even came close to having that kind of friend... though I would love to.

it is interesting that this site has comments by both AS and normals (well non AS). You reasoning is exactly the same as my husbands. If one didn't know that you were wired differently one might say you were a bit of a snob. To have a friend, you need to care, can you care about another person - not as a leader or follower - just as another unit of life with feelings, expectations, and rights! I don't know why all your wires are not differentiated, but I think it makes it impossible for you to truly care. It is difficult for my husband to pay attention as he's busy 'judging' other people, and thus doesn't hear what is being communicated. It is good to hear your side, but on this site, I need to hear the strategies of the spouses of the AS's to maximize positive relationships -

If it's impossible for an aspie to care and thus change (because if we don't care then it naturally follows that we don't have any inspiration to change)... why do you "normals" even allow us to live?
In my opinion-- we care too much.
We know that we're different and furthermore, we know that YOU know that we're different... consequently, we fear your judgement... so we disarm your judgement with our own, truly the quintessential Catch-22.
- Our fear of judgement by "normals" drives (via the OCD side of AS) us to over-react. Notice the question... "OK so how many people have friends they are so uninhibited with as to just alot time to have actual fun with? Doesn't that sound pleasant?" We have inhibition because of "fear of judgement". That's ALL people... it's just exponentially larger for aspies... I don't know why, maybe it's that wiring problem you mentioned. But still, the last line... it DOES sound pleasent to us... we DO care. It seems that we just loop-back to the fear of judgement before we "take the chance." Every single time. Every sentance is monitored for that judgement... to the point of obsession. That's part of the sickness. Me, I'm just looking for a way to break the cycle... because I'm tired of hurting and hurting others. I doubt that I'll succeed but I care enough to try one more time. There's just too many burned bridges for one small man to make all the proper amends.
Still, we "ab-normals" appreciate hearing the "other side" of the story... indeed it's vital to recovery. In a perfect world, maybe we'll each meet that one "normal" who'll recognize the fact that we're broken and yet give us the room to screw-up on a regular basis. Because, for those of who DO care and are trying,(regardless of how pathetic of an attempt you might perceive it to be) do want to be accepted by others, er, normals.
But then again... who cares, right?

My Aunt once said I was incapable of feeling. I think she is incapable of knowing how much that hurt me. You too. Distinguish please: We have the same feelings...the "disorder" is in the communication of the feelings, the rationalizations, the logic may all seem very cold to you but is arises out of well meant concern for not being able to keep feelings from causing us to become irrational, to respond with base-intinctual fight or flight bridge-burning, Turet's-like response to what we perceive as crass and alienating emotional backlash just for simply being ourselves and trying to be open and honest with it.

Communication 101
Message has: purpose, sender, reciever.
Barriers: noise, language, syntax, lack of clarity, superfluous non-purpose related data, ambivalence, conflicting purpose component, secondary purpose detracts from primary, alienation/subordination of receiver.

Topic Thread:
Subj: "friendships"
Purpose: Primary:comparative analysis of core reasons for statistical trend
Secondary: mutually encourage circumnavigation of core perceptions inhibiting non spousal, non-utilitarian relationships.

Error: Off thread
Error: Comment contains unsupported conclusion/assessment
Error: Contains non purpose related criticism
Error: Contains intent to invalidate/dissmiss relevence of thread participants.
Comment: Irony exists referent to non participant as "judgemental"

Hi Mimestream,

It appears given your criteria for friendship, I have 2 good friends and two medium friends not counting aquaintances. The thing I find facinating about them is they basically fall into two distinct categories.

1/ The Opposites - this includes one good friend the two mediums and you can add my wife. They tend to be completly right brained individuals. That is they are emotional, intuitive individuals with great social skills, but are vey insecure intellectually/logically. They tend to be spontaneous and the two medium friends talk too much. This is in direct contrast to my somewhat lobsided left brained logical and uncommunicative self. I think it works because we form a symbiotic relationship. The problems I can run into with the opposite personalities is at times they can be controlling, and sometimes I rebel against control.

2/ The Similars - I have one good friend who falls into this category. We get along great but at times can run out of things to say.

I guess for me it is no different than with the NT population in that opposites and similars attract. However, given the distinctiveness of my Aspie brain, there is a much more limited pool of opposites/similars to meet and become friends with.

By the way, great explanation Mr.Breeze on caring and AquaeGrannus on explaining that the disorder is in the communication.

i just wanted to say thanks to aquaegrannus for saying exactly what i was thinking. i too was in the military (20 yrs. just retired) and was very good at it but always struggled with the leader/follower thing.i would also love to have a good friend as the only one i have now is my wife.

dorthythe
A "strategy" for one couple will not work, why would it,? You are a unique couple unto you.
Every cancer patient undergoes a unique regimen to attack their disease with a gameplan. Although we aren't dealing with a disease here, just differenlt wired brains.
Please define how snob is used in your context because I don't see it in any of these posts by anyone-just people honestly having a stab at communication.
One must own it, they are, nothing wrong with that, just the facts ma'am.

Not many friends myself. haha.

mm thats one of the reasons I play sport - social side.

I would have a lot more if i included the "don't include these..."

haha interesting comment!!

firends are hard... You must make an effort to talk with... talking is hard for as...(some)... and MOTIVATION/ gota get out of bed, your world, your safe routined world and go outside to visit them.

Hey folks,

My first thought is to thank Aquaegrannus for pointing out that Aspies have issues with communication not emotion. Matter of fact, their emotions are usually on one rollercoaster or another. My son cries if I criticized anything he did and is extremely concerned about the world at large, like global warming and the Iraq war casualties. But out of his mouth, he says people in drought areas should move (even in SubSaharan Africa) or the soldiers were stupid for joining the military. This is the same child who will hit a kid with a ruler for asking him to move out of the way, but will come home and lovingly cook a full meal for our family (and there are 7 of us total). I have never been classified as an Aspie but my mother swears she knows why my son is one, hahaha. I have 2 friends, have had them for 26 years, we raise each others kids, talk all the time. I have one person that I am slowly cultivating a friendship with. Let me share something with everyone, Aspies and typicals alike. Friendships should be something developed over long periods of time. And you don't need any more friends than you have fingers, is my philosophy. More drama than needed and it is easier to be a great friend to 5 than an OK friend to 10. People would probably be more understanding if they understood ASD more but the reality is our society has issues with ANYBODY that doesn't conform with it's idea of normal so please don't let that stop you from reaching out. Like will find like. Check out your local chapter of the Autism Society for events, functions and get togethers. Ask family members to introduce you to open minded and positive people that they know. Those would be great places to start. And say things like, "Oh by the way, I have ASD so if I say something that sounds a little off, please ask me about it. I might not have meant it the way it sounded." Learn simple ways to explain it to people and maybe you will find the meaningful friendships you are looking for.

The problem with not counting family is that most of the people who I consider to fit in the category that you describe as friends fall into the category of "family" for me, though they are not related to me at all.

That is another problem with the whole aspie vs non-aspie thing... it seems that aspies categorize people and things differently.

Another thing, if I hear one more time that aspies are incapable of caring, I'm going to freakin' lose it. Just because we process things differently or respond differently, does NOT mean that we don't or can't care. It's the expression of how we care that non-aspies just don't seem to understand. That is horribly frustrating sometimes. It's like I'm doing the best I can to show someone that I care, and yet it either gets ignored or misunderstood. Details... little things like hearing in a conversation that someone likes tea biscuits and then the next day bringing them some. I may not have responded to the comment at the moment, but bringing the person tea biscuits proved I was listening and that I cared... yet, by the time they got my response, they'd forgotten that they'd mentioned it. That is a minor and stupid example, but it is the easiest one I have to give.

I have close friends, but some of them I haven't really seen in a while... but when I do see them, we have a blast. Oh, and oddly enough, a good shot of rum helps a whole lot with getting past the overthinking thing...LOL I'm mostly joking and do not condone getting drunk or drinking often, but it seems to help rewire things so that I can act just like everyone else.

hmmmm.... thinking.... you don't want to know what though...

I think drinking does that for a lot of people. I have noticed though that it can tend to allow more unihibited rants from time to time. Not censuring it, not recommending it...but I had a friend who used to always sing this little ditty, not sure where he got it...Ohhhh I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than to have a frontal lobotomy...
Disclaimer: drink responsibly...and if you don't, tip well, and take a cab. It's Friday and that's my plan.