Shakysara - I am advocating more education to the alcoholic on holistic and natural supplementation and well as nutrition to alleviate SOME of the physical/psychological problems that both predispose the alcoholic to addiction and exist defacto as a result of the excessive consumption of alcohol over time.

Example: The liver plays a large role in regulating hormones in the body. When it operates inefficiently, it can't do its job well. The result is hormonal imbalance. Would you agree that a special liver detox diet would improve liver function and thus at least in part remedy the problems associated to hormonal imbalance?

I am not talking about curing cirrhosis or the other permanent bodily damage you describe. I am talking about alleviating what we can affect.

There is no argument here. I appreciate the input and opinions. It's important stuff to consider is all.

Dear HTL, I use a combination of non-traditional medicine and traditonal medicine. I'm a vegetarian and use some juicing, but also use a whole food vegetarian diet for the fiber benefits. What works for me is just that. What works for me. I have no argument with what others choose to use. Good luck with your work toward improving your health. Hugs, sara

please be careful a little bit of knowledge can be dangerous, even what are thaught of as simple vitamins can be dangerous, eg iron. please dont go to a plumber for advice how to rewire a house. regards

Oh... and that's how we both got to be 109, right? :o) xx sara

A person can definately overload their liver even without drinking. You are right on about the hormones. When drinking (I know this will TMI for some) my monthly cycle was all screwed up and I'd have constant spotting. I doubt AA will ever change. Like someone else mentioned...all they need to do is start handing out anything scientific and it would upset many. It is what it is and has remained that way for decades. Meetings like LifeRing go more in debth into nutrition and current research. They are relativly new and not in all areas.

Thanks all!

Jill - I also had some pretty severe and obvious hormone imbalances due to my heavy drinking. It took me months to get straightened out and I am still not where I was before "that one horrible 2-month binge" a year ago.

Sara - I have you beat. I am 125 yrs old, but 109 was the oldest DS would let me record. ;-)

Dr.Abram Hoffer a physician and friend of Bill W. speaks to this subject directly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PH1_v0zh_gk&feature=player_embedded

There were several sobriety organisations on the scene going back many years before Alcoholics Anonymous and although they all had limited success, they ultimately failed.

One of the reasons for failure was that these societies tended to get involved with all sorts of good causes and to lend their names to things that had little or nothing to do with recovery. Early AA almost fell into the same trap, having plans for building hospitals, lecturing in schools etc. We are indeed fortunate that God had another plan and that He guided the fellowship in the right direction.

Tradition Five states: Each group has but one primary purpose to carry its message to the alcoholic who still suffers.

It's a complex subject and there probably isn't time in a meeting to address it although maybe a recommendation for a workshop on nutrition? I got sober on vitamin therapy alone with a naturopath who worked with alcoholics. I take phytonutrients (these can be bought in powder form) B vitamins are EXTREMELY important, Niacin can actually stop cravings and has been proven in a few cases to actually stop the alcoholic from drinking, L-Glutamine, Cenitol (inistatol), Vitamin D in high doses, fish oils in high concentration, Vitamin C in high doses... mind you this was all done with the help of a naturopathic doctor and I am still under her care. Vitamin rich foods and supplements are awesome and they really do help. Sometimes some of us don't get enough naturally. I take everything in powder form, mix it up and drink it down 2-3 times a day. Easy. Nutrition is very, very important.

Hey HTL, you've tossed these thoughts in ref to AA for over a week now yeah. AA in no way treats any physical problems that exist. AA helped build a foundation for my sobriety, but there was a lot of work that needed to be done around that. What AA did do was bring me out of my self imposed prison to identify where I did need extra help. Steps not a fix all, but it sure did give me awareness. And with a sounder mind, I was better able to go and further educate myself and make informed decisions about my life. So off I went to see those better qualified to guide me with those issues.

I also encourage supplementing vitamin deficiencies, but would encourage anyone considering to get a health checkup to identify if they need a boost, and how much. I took Vit C, but was getting that from natural foods, so the pills became excess flushed down the dunny. The Vit Companies were getting my money and were sure happy for it though.

HTL. I've had a myriad of physical hurdles, but I didn't go to AA to get my cancer seen to, nor because I had a hormonal imbalance. There was also trauma that returned to me in sobriety, but I didn't go to AA to solve that either. I went to appropriate counselling. Where AA did help is it gave me the foundation and tools to be aware and identify when I needed to take action. Do the legwork, and hand the rest over to HP/God.

I also believe any self-improvement program can make a solid foundation if followed through in it's entirety with full commitment. I encourage anyone to supplement their programs of sobriety with education and physical supplementation both in nutrition and exercise. That's been a massive part of my sobriety, but I didn't get that from AA. Did learn to get off my ass though and stop wallowing in self-pity. Just can't see why you've linked the subject content here to AA.

Okay, I see a mistake I made. Thanks Coog. I don't know why I felt it necessary to tie this to AA - (teenage rebellion?) - I think because I feel caught in the middle. So many people say AA is the answer and I guess I didn't want to choose one side or the other. I KNOW I need AA as my foundation and I didn't want to feel I was in some way going AGAINST it but rather, "why doesn't aa do this or that" so I could have my answers in one place. I see my error. I feel better hearing that others have done more than just what AA teaches to help themselves. I didn't get it before but I get it now. AA is what it is - it just isn't about the physical stuff. Okay - No problem. ;)

Lots of good points made here. Thanks all.

I think the answer to my question is "It just doesn't." lol :)

It's given me a solid foundation on which to build Anna, and I'd recommend it to anyone. Hey, get it out of your head and on this forum. It's always good to get other perspectives. I've learned a lot from reading others views here. And not just those with long term sobriety, but the HTL's too. :}

The book, Pass it on, discusses Bill's work with B-Vitimine at length.

Because in 1950, the AA membership voted to make the job of each group, provide help for the alcoholic who still suffers. There are several references in the Big Book to those who are aflicted with other disorders to get help from organizations or indivicuals who specialize in that particular aspect.

Quite honestly AA could be a lot more effective in discharging it single purpose than it is. It would be more helpful to humankind to find ways to get better at that first.

Bill Wilson's passion toward the end of his life was to get Orthomolecular treatment into the Alcoholics Anonymous experience.

Physical cure to the damaged body is not a cure for alcoholism, its restoration of a damaged product.

Once you restore that product if you don't maintain it, it will be destroyed again.

Physical restoration does not address the emotional issues, does not have one look at oneself as a person, it does not work on your relationship with a HP (AA's terminology)

Physical restortation is one of the 3 things necessary to maintain sobriety - changing of the body, mind and soul.

You know me HT - I throughly believe in nutrients, brain connections and all - because of my son's autism and you know we've discussed the healthy brain and body

BUT DON'T KID YOURSELF INTO THINKING PHYSICAL RESTORATION AND YOURE CURED FROM ALCOHOLISM.

Physically putting your body back together will be a waste of time if you intend to heal it to pour alcohol into again.

Peace!

Love ya lady!