I dont think its about right or wrong but about what you want and are happy with. I wanted to be sure that I got all the promises were available as described in the big book so I wanted to follow the instructions on how to get them.

The point of the steps is to have a spiritual awakening which enables us to stay sober. So my question to you would be have you had a spiritual awakening as the result of the work you have done? And could you help other people to acheive it?

bob,

I'm not sure what you're asking here. If it's a question of doctrine or AA dogma, then the answer is definitely yes, you do have to go through the steps with a sponsor. But if the question is about reality and practical results in terms of success rates as measured by long-term and contented sobriety, then I'd say the factual answer is definitely at odds with the dogmatic ideal.

I've seen plenty of mavericks hang in there for 20 years and more, and I've seen plenty of by-the-bookers (and their sponsors) get bored with the whole thing after five or ten years and drink again. Others just feel suffocated in the guru-disciple relationship between sponsor and sponsee that this ritual entails and never get sober at all.

Nemo, you are talking about extremes. I did the steps as they are in the book with a sponsor and we never had a guru disciple relationship. By the book doesnt have to mean anything extra than following the instructions as they are in the book with guidance from someone who has done the steps and has experience of spiritual life.

Nicky,

Actually, I'm talking about statistical results. Based on observation, I cannot say on a factual basis that people who do the steps with a sponsor are more likely to succeed in the long run than those who don't. As reassuring as the doctrine may look in theory, I see no evidence in real-time AA to support it.

I believe I have spiritual awakenings everytime I ask for one, in the form of a sign, that my need will or has been fulfilled with the help of my Higher Power. An example, If I am having trouble keeping my bills paid, just a little reminder to my Higher Power and within a day or two my sales will go through the roof. Never fails! So yea I think I am ok but yet I feel guilty that I didn't do what my spomser told me to do and the fact I am still sober means little to him. "Good Boy", he will say. But you really need to go through the steps with me. I say, ya ok, Bill, when I can find the time. I spend alot of time working to keep my wife and I fed and I don't exactly live next door to my sponser. Meetings are 30 miles round trip and where he lives is 45 miles round trip.

I am venting a little so don't take anything I say personally people.

Thanks!

When we talk about the program of Alcoholics Anonymous were not just talking about sobriety. We're talking about not only physical sobriety but emotional sobriety and spiritual sobriety. The reason the steps are suggested to be done with a sponsor is this. As alcoholics we not only suffer from the disease we also suffer from terminal egoitis. We do the steps with our sponsor and with God in orderto experience some degree of humility. We pray to our higher for the humility to follow the direction of someone other than ourselves. When you stop and think about it your own best thinking earned you a seat at the table of Alcoholics Anonymous.We experience what true humility is. The first step spells it out pretty well when it says I am an alcoholic and my life hasbecome unmanageable. I'm not saying that its impossible to get sober without following the program . It has been done many times. I believe your question was about following the book. No where in the book does it mention a sponsor.We adopted those suggestions as a program of recovery.I just thought I'd give you food for thought about learning all those things with the same head and thinking that got you here. Do you understand my point? God bless and keep coming back. Greg

Now here's the real irony. In the summer & fall of 1993 I did a 20-session step study in the private home of a gent named Bob, who had been formally trained to conduct these things. It was all very structured and Bob gave each of us his private evaluation of our progress at the end of the course.

In '94 I moved a few towns away and didn't see Bob again more than twice until this summer, when he started attending my home group. It turns out he drank again after 25 years and is currently unable to stop again. But in his day he was the model step sponsor and his long-gone sponsees were legion, and that's a fact I can't bring myself to ignore in favor of an idea that looks good on paper.

only question I have bob is kind of like nicky about the spiritual awakening....you might be seeing self fulfilling prophecy in what you are seeing...I know that what you experience is also what I experience that GOD does for me what I cannot do for myself....but the fifth step involves another person....was that process done? and why was it not your sponsor? Someone else can hear a fifth step and the book is very specific that we choose wisely about whom we share it with...but there is something about sharing the fifth step with the one we want to walk thru sobriety with whom we call our sponsor that kind of is likely to help us see in ourselves what another might not....but spiritual awakening sufficient enough to recover from alcoholism is the goal of working the steps and has been said the big book never mentions sponsors....

quiet true nemo many members get drunk again even the ones who have led countless others to sobriety....

I would qualify that and say, "Many members get drunk again, even the ones who have led countless others to temporary sobriety.... " In fact, relapse among these sponsorship enthusiasts is so common that again I have to ask why the rebels and mavericks so often outlast the conformists. I really believe this is worth a closer look.

:)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2u_rEcWW8M&feature=related

I just think It's time for a new sponser. He was good for me in the beginning when I really needed someone to open my eyes and show me the bigger picture but I need someone now who can add to that.

I derived something positive out of every reply here. Thankyou very much for the time out took to reply.

awww ty Bigbear. That means alot to me.

I had a very good sponsor but he recently passed on. When I did the first step and we started together and I finished on my own. I took my step work to his job and gave it to him. He took it from and immediately tore it up and threw it in the garbage can.Icannot begin to tell you how entaged I was but I held it back. When Icould breathe again, I asked him what do you want me to do. He said do it again. And I left to do it again.

Sometime later like around the 4th step. I asked him, why did you do that on my 1st step.

He said, you have a hair-trigger temper and somewhat dangerous. He said if you are going to hurt me, do it now and I can be done with you.

I say all that to say. Today have some humility and I live the program. I have some understanding of willingness and honesty. I know I am not perfect but I have come a long way in my sobtriety without a relapse.

Think about what I am saying. I agree with Greg. Each of us, needs a guide and sponsor. I have found that Alcoholic Anonymous and the 12 Steps is not just a program but a way of life. We all need to learn how to live at whatever age we are.

No doubt this sort of sponsorship works for some of us. But can we generalize from that and standardize it as the norm for everyone? Must the experience of some be the made into doctrine for all?

Perne, when I look at myself now and look at myself before I joined the program, I feel I have come a long way also. I have put alot of work into myself and continue to do so.

Everyone here has sponsered me in some way shape or form. The lessons I learned I try use everyday. I use to do things without thinking like going to the grocery store to buy a quart of mild, go by the liquer isle on my way to the cashier and instinctively grab a bottle of jack daniels on the way by. I don't do that anymore. I think about the consequences of my actions. The people I will hurt and the problems it will cause.

After talking with someone here I call my cybersponser, I am at peace with myself. I stopped punishing myself.

I pray every day, or try to anyway. I say the serenity prayer which has proven to be a very powerful prayer for me. I live a simple life, yet I am happy. I always seem to get what I need.

Life is good!

Bill will be proud of me! lol!