I've been attending an AA Beginners group recently, and there is a lot of advice that is shared because we've all been in the same spot. Nobody considers themselves to be experts......but they do have encouraging words that help. Probably 18 people in the group, all of them either sober for less than two years or chronic relapsers.

I would agree that newly sober people should do their share of listening, but you still have things to say and I don't think you need to be silent. It's more important to keep an open mind, because none of us knows everything yet........at least I don't think we do. :)

As one who is very new to both sobriety and the AA experience (2 weeks sober), I rely heavily on the stories I've heard shared in the meetings I've attended. While I may not share the exact experience I'm hearing, I almost always hear something that resonates with my personal struggle. I find hope in those who have been successful for a long period of time, and comfort in those who are still struggling as I am. I've had the lightbulb go on above my head more than once while listening to another recount their story...even when the details don't resemble my journey at all. I often relate to the emotion invoked or the addiction drive that they describe.

Please don't stop sharing your experiences with others...those of us who are just starting on this road to a better life really need to hear you!

Olive just because you don't have years of sobriety doesn't mean that you don't have something meaningful and helpful to contribute to a conversation. Hell, I've heard things that have helped me from someone who's still drunk!

Doesn't matter if you have one day or 35 years, you never know if something you say might help someone else to understand. Don't listen to that jimbo dude, I've never even seen him or heard from him and for him to suddenly appear & take a shot at you, he's a coward. Screw 'im!

I'm participating in online recovery forums since 10 years by now. What usually happens is that new people connect and "support" each other. After a few weeks or maybe months most are gone again and once in a while someone sticks around.Those usually connect then with more experienced members. It is perfectly fine to be as you are and it is clear that someone who is still struggling can't give much support. Hey, you never will get more attention again in AA than during that first year. Take all you can get and go first class. You can pass it on to new people when you're ready. There's a reason that in some areas they call sponsees "babies". Be a good babygirl :-), you'll grow up fast enough if you do the stuff.

Whjy not some group service work,? still gets you outta your own head, less stressful than 12th step

I'm no longer convinced that we all have the same disease or that we're all capable of even wanting permanent sobriety. Those of us who do, and who started off at that level of unconditional desperation, often make mistaken assumptions about other self-described alcoholics and what they're looking for in terms of support. I've made that mistake many times here, but I' still not convinced it's something I need to apologize for.

Many drink again periodically after putting anywhere from a few months to a few years of dry time together, and then bounce right back again and again as if this was par for the course and nothing earth-shattering had happened.

But I, for one, can't do that. If I were to drink again, the thought of starting over would be so overwhelming that I probably wouldn't even try. So I've had to learn a whole new set of values and manners here that are very different from the ones I got accustomed to in AA where, at least in my neck of the woods, wanting permanent sobriety is still the name of the game.

I've been posting here since July of '08 and I still feel like the bull in the china shop, even as I type this.

I hear ya Nemo.....that bouncing back & forth isn't for me. I'm going to do everything I can to stay the course. I just told my sponsor a couple of weeks ago that I attended a 7am meeting that I don't normally attend.

There apparently was no one chairing the meeting and a lady asked 3 different people if they would chair and they all said "I don't have enough time, I went back out" just like it was no big deal, very nonchalant about it. Like you said, nothing earth shattering at all.

I was shocked, I think if I relapsed, I would be devastated and I don't think coming back would be too easy at all!

I appreciate your words you old poot! :) Am waiting for some new birdie pics too....

Good reply Nemo. Your point in the first paragraph probably deserves it's own thread. IMO, everyone likes to say "you are not unique" but that is far from the truth for many. The truth is that despite uniqueness, there has been found a solution that works for MOST and an assumption made about those who it does not work for.

I for one believe that my recovery may depend upon a spiritual experience, and I for one don't believe I cannot graze through steps 2 and 3 at any less than 100%. JMO. My exception is that it may take years, if not the remainder of my life, to achieve the spiritual experience I am envisioning. In the meantime I must do something so I will follow instruction and move on to step 4 whether or not I feel ready. Make sense?

Just agreeing, or extrapolating maybe, that we are all unique in our recovery.

Howto- Spiritual growth is a lifetime endeavor for everyone. Most people don't have the courage to do it. Don't worry about the fact that it will take time.....what else is there to do?

I think if you have 1 day you have something to share. But this stuff takes alot of time and hard work it is not easy to recover from alcoholism, anybody says it is they are nuts. I hear ppl with one day say some amazing stuff sometimes. listen to the message and not who is giving it.

I think that this is a very difficult issue. I have listened so many times to people who are back again after another relapse and they end their sharing with, 'It's ok though because I am determined to stay sober this time, it's been so bad out there that I will never drink again.' I sigh at that because they are almost guaranteed to drink again, they are not yet teachable.

If someone has relapsed, that means that there is something missing from their recovery but cannot see it. This means that often they share things that are actually counter productive for other newcomers in the rooms.

The message that we carry to other alcoholics 'must have depth and weight' according to the Big Book. It also says on page 164 'But obviously you cannot transmit something that you haven't got.'

The problem is further compounded by the stories returners tell. They regale the meeting with tales of wet beds, projectile vomiting, sexual misdeeds etc etc but this is of no help to anyone. We cannot scare people into recovery. What people need to hear is how to ensure continued and permanent sobriety. It is obvious that a returner needs to hear this themselves rather than be sharing their horror stories. Newcomers cite this as the reason they don't like meetings - the horror stories and very little else.

The Primary Purpose of every AA group is to carry the message to alcoholics, those who are sober know how to get that way - good helpful information; returners have been drinking and what they know is how to get that way - useless information.

This isn't to say that these people don't need to talk, but they need to do it before or after the meeting, with their sponsor (although it is often the case that they don't actually have one!)

My home group is a beginners meeting and the sharing is very focussed upon carrying the message and transmitting a message of hope.

I try and stick to sharing my experience and relating that to what is in the big book if appropriate. My experience is what I have. So if someone shares on here about marriage difficulties for example, I tend not to get involved except maybe to say "I hear you" because I dont have any experience of a difficult marriage so what can I tell people apart from to do things based on spiritual principles.

I think there is a big difference in AA terms between carrying "A" message - which anyone can do, and carrying "THE" message - which can only be done by someone who has taken the steps and had a spiritual awakening. As you say we cannot transmit something we haven't got.

I think if we stick to sharing our experience and let others decide what they do with that, rather than ever giving advice, then that's the best we can do at any given time.

Sometimes ya just never know who's carrying the message est. We once had a guy in this neck of the woods we called Cancer Chuck. He always wore a bandanna on his head because, he said, he was constantly in and out of chemotherapy. He walked like he was on eggshells, his voice was weak & thin, and there was always a reverent hush in the rooms when he shared. People all over the area quoted the warmthh, wit & wisdom of Cancer Chuck.

Well, we picked up the newspapers one morning about a dozen years ago and there he was, right on page 1. Our beloved Chuck was a complete fraud, a small-time Bernie Madoff.

He hadn't conned anyone in AA out of anything, but he had faked everything else, including alcoholism and cancer, to run a sympathy scam and bilk his church and his employer, a car dealer, out of a total of two million dollars. His wife finally figured out what he was doing and called the cops. Slam-dunk case and he got 15-20 years.

Even though he's been a guest of the State and out of circulation ever since, I still hear people quoting him and telling how inspired they were by that honest and inspiringl guy with cancer. "What was his name? Is he still alive? Oh, you know the one..."

howtolive, I am 11 years sober now, but when I first started in AA and had that "gift of desperation", I could not relate on any level with people with that length of sobriety - it seemed like pie in the sky to me - I'd just come out of the pubs, clubs and dives and had no concept of a life lived with long-term sobriety and the dignity, consistency and honesty that entails. So it was the people who were two weeks sober, one month sober, six months sober (Wow!!) that were my role models. Then as got more time under my belt I was able to look at the people with long term sobriety and aspire to what they had - it had become more realistic to me.

So, it is crucial for people with those periods of time time to share where they are at and what they have achived, even how shitty they feel and how wild the rollercoaster is, for the benefit of the newest of Newcomers.

Also, now, with my current years of sobriety, I need to hear newcomers to remind me of what it was like - how demeaning, dangerous, destructive to me and those ariound me, was my drinking. It is always a gift to hear that stuff and it helps this alcoholic stay sober.

once again.....i bypassed all responses

(in a selfish tone)......i give no support....we are all losers......destined to carry the chains of our past with no hope.

i hoped that pissed you off.

sometimes we walk the path sideways......but we walk the path.....searching for self truth, understanding and a rekindling of love of life we all shared at some point in our life.

i know this.............happiness is found in the heart of a child..........find it in yourself.

i was bowling tonight and there was a 2 year old offering me high fives......of course it was a never ending process LOL.............i envy innocence.


know self..........help those you can..............and never ever fuck the rest. they too will re enter your life.........................trust me.