I found similar - it took me a while to understand that when I thought I craved a drink it was my mind obsessing. The physical craving could only set in once alcohol was actually in my system and, like you, once I was off there was no stopping me. Seeing how distorted my thinking was and beginning to understand the truth of it was essential for this alcoholic.

For me, the term "use disorder" is a more accurate description of an alcohol addiction than the term "disease". Especially more accurate than "incurable disease". But I don't really place alcohol addiction in the obsessive compulsive disorder (OCD) camp. It seems to me that an OCD does not necessarily need to have a "reward" associated with it while alcohol use offers the reward of feeling drunk.

Yes. The obsession and craving.

Had both. Don't have either now.

Would say things like:

God I need a beer
Man I can't wait for that glass of wine.
Crappy day, a drink will make me fee better.
What a success, let's drink!

Also would pre party constantly, you know a few drinks before dinner, the concert, the event.

Would want to post party and be upset with people who tried to limit or stop me.

Finally the worrying about having enough alcohol. I'd get to parties where drinks were provided. If I only saw 20-30 beers for 20-30 people, I'd drink as many as I could, as fast as I could.

That alcohol is a demon. I'm grateful I can be around it and not care a bit.

BC there is a difference in craving for smoking in drinking.

When I was a smoker I would have a meal, have a cuppa even a drink and as I was having the cuppa I would crave to have a smoke. Once I had that smoke I stopped craving. I am no expert but guessing it was the nicorette in the smoke I craved, once I had a smoke my nicorette reached the level and I stopped craving. Once the level dropped I craved another.

With alcohol I did not crave alcohol till I put the grog in. On putting the grog in I set off in motion a need to get more alcohol because of the way it made me feel. Guess because I wanted to feel 'right' I craved more.

With the obsession this is a mental state in that a seed would be sown, as I thought about the seed it would grow bigger and bigger in my mind till I reached that point to stop the seed growing I had to have that first drink. Once I took that first drink the craving kicked in. What you say about the visiting the well guess is what I talk about the progression. I visited the well and liked what I found and wanted more of what the well offered. The problem was to get that initial feeling I had to visit the well more often and for longer and the truth was I never reached the feeling of the first visit.

With the disease I see this as illness concept there is a lot written on debated about and I am in no way an expert. Having said that to me anyone who continues to practice a behaviour, even though they know that behaviour is harming them then that is a mental sickness, guess bit along the line of self harming.

G8

The urge to explain this in clinical terms is strong right now. However obviously my book smarts are not enough for my own cravings and obsessions to be explained away so im jumping in on this conversation not as a professional but as a struggling gal. I've obsessed about my four little bottles numerous times today. End of the work day is the hardest and I've made a conscious decision to post before I drive to the c store so here I am. I am finding the things that work for me are distraction and acceptance. I have to accept that im going to obsess about my wine, why wouldn't I its been a "friend" for two years. At least that what it tells me it is as im driving to the store to get it and opening that first little bottle for the ride home. This is where I am learning to distract or even further the "go ahead pam" thoughts with "WTF are you doing Pam" thoughts. it is not my friend. that's the cunning and baffeling part of this. It makes me feel great, for the night. But when I wake and the guilt comes on or the struggle to remember the night it doesn't appear too friendly. Most days when I drank I was remorseful and guilty until about 4 pm. When I could justify stopping for my wine again. Tonight im not stopping. Today was a sober today. I yearn for the same sort of day tomorrow. It wasn't necessarily an easy day. I still obsessed about it. But the guilt and shame were not there. So im subtracting some of the power wine has over me. My addicted brain tells me its ok. But the non alcoholic in me (got that from a book im reading) the rational part left of Pam is where the hope and recovery is. Urine looking beverage will have to find another victim this evening. Ive got other things to do:)

Hi CPB when you mention the four little bottles of wine is what I am talking about the obsession. For me initially I could resist those little bottles but each time I pushed that obsession aside I weakened my resolve. Each time I thought about the four little bottles the longer the thought stayed in my head till eventually I caved into those four little bottles. Once I took one of those little bottles my resolve was thrown out the door and I craved for the next 3 little bottles and in my case the other 20 tinnies in the slab.

When you talk about waking up and feeling guilty and other feelings, this is how I felt most hungover mornings. However, by as you say 4pm the thoughts on how crap I found in the morning where not enough to not pick up the first one. I would say things like just one to take the hair off the dog but only one. That never lasted once I had the one I thought hey that wasn't bad have another and on it went with me again repeating this the next morning.

So as I said in the other post my thinking is the problem and that is what I had to change to allow me to not pick up my first drink.

By doing a recovery program it has the effect of what you talk about I've got other things to do. By doing the program I could focus on finding me solution. As as I did the program, hopefully, I learn tools to deal with those moments when the thought sneaks in.

Hope this makes sense and wishing you well G8

Coming to understand how alcoholism affects the mind and body was vitally important when I quit drinking. This brought an understanding of the reasons why I drank in the way that I did and why I had found it impossible to stay sober. Ignorance of the facts had led to a complete loss of hope but understanding how alcoholism works opened the door to a solution.

Alcoholism affects the drinker in two ways, partly in the mind and partly in the body. The mental aspect is often described as an obsession for alcohol, while the physical element is labelled as a craving.

The physical craving is the result of a change in the way in which the body reacts to alcohol and this is scientifically proven, which may be one reason why alcoholism is regarded as an illness or disease. When any substance is consumed by the body, be it food or liquid, enzymes are employed to break down and digest that substance, going through several chemical changes in the process. Where alcohol is concerned, it is first of all broken down into acetaldehyde, then to diacetic acid, to acetone and finally to water, sugar and carbon dioxide which are disposed of in various ways by the body.

A person who crosses the line into alcoholism no longer has enzymes of sufficient quantity or quality to break down alcohol completely from the acetone level and as a result a certain level of this chemical is retained in the body. If a small amount of alcohol such as one drink is then introduced, it combines with the acetone to produce a craving in the body for more alcohol. The body sends a message to the brain and another drink is taken in order to try and satisfy the craving. This is why one drink leads to many and very often an alcoholic will not feel that he or she has had enough to drink even after consuming a lot. This is also the reason why an alcoholic will find it difficult or impossible to control drinking. The good news is that the craving cannot develop if the first drink is avoided.

The mental aspect of alcoholism can be described as an obsession although various other terms such as a compulsion are also used. This obsession develops over a period of time and one way to explain it is that the thinking changes from a few drinks would help to I cant do this without a few drinks. Alcoholism is a progressive condition and if the person keeps drinking this obsession becomes stronger. Because of the obsession, convincing reasons will be found to justify taking a drink and although those reasons may seem absurd to other people, they will often make perfect sense to the drinker. Thus, an alcoholic will often be convinced that their drinking is normal or not all that bad, that it is justified by various life issues or that it is somebody elses fault. So-called triggers may be found that justify a return to drinking but the real reason (the obsession) will remain hidden.

A person who suffers from an obsession for alcohol is said to be defenceless against the thinking that leads up to taking the first drink. Obviously the condition will vary from person to person, depending on how far alcoholism has progressed. Some people will find that strong willpower is enough to overcome the problem, counselling will work for others and self-help methods such as Allen Carrs books may also be successful. For a sizeable percentage of alcoholics those methods alone while they may be helpful will not be enough and more is required. The Swiss psychiatrist, Carl Jung treated many chronic alcoholics and he discovered that where other methods had failed, these once hopeless cases sometimes recovered through what he termed moral psychology. If a radical change in attitudes, outlook and opinions could be brought about, the obsession for alcohol was removed and the first drink could be avoided.

The article below looks interesting but I have not studied it in detail yet.

www.lakesidemilam.com/alcohol.../disease-of-addiction-an-expanded-ov

Don't know why that link didn't work. The article is called:

"Disease of Addiction: An Expanded Overview"

It should come up on a Google search.

Here is what goes on in the brain.

http://stavros69.blogspot.com/2013/09/reward-circuits-themesolimbic-dopamine.html

Wow, that is the most complex analysis of substance addiction I have ever reviewed! I got most of it and it seems logical to me. I do believe it is important for some of us to fully understand the process of addiction in order to develop a reasonable and believable method of countering it. That is just the way we work. Thanks Impermanence.

Thank you PJ54 for your explanation around obsessions and cravings - highly informative and helpful for me to understand why I relapsed and am back to square one again :)

I couldn't wait for the first one. I wanted more once the first one was gone. It was a viscous cycle

Break the cycle and the obsessive compulsive behavior and life can return to normal

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