Alcoholism Support Group
Alcoholism is the continued consumption of alcoholic beverages, even when it is negatively affecting your health, work, relationships and life. If you think alcohol is causing you to lose control, it's time to seek help. Our group is a safe place to vent, check in, get back up if you fall, and reach sobriety.
Is addiction real? Yes, but..... Ok, so Ive stated my case as to why I dont buy into the disease argument with regards to alcoholism or as I prefer, alcohol/drug dependency.
When having this debate, many times the other person will say, Ok, well if its not a disease, then it most definitely is an ADDICTION
While addiction is real, I dont care for the word because it also implies a state in which the person has no control over it. So, lets take a look at what constitutes this much misunderstood word.
Addiction, when discussing alcohol or drugs, clearly has two very different components, one physical and one mental. Now there are addictions that only have the mental component (gambling, shopping, etc) and Ill touch on those later, but for now well concern ourselves with just substance addiction.
With regards to the physical aspect of it, if you go to www.psychology.com and click on the tab Psych
Basics and then click on addiction you will find the following in the body of the article;
The word addiction is used in several different ways. One definition describes physical addiction. This is a biological state in which the body adapts to the presence of a drug so that drug no longer has the same effect; this is known as tolerance. Because of tolerance, there is a biological reaction when the drug is withdrawn. Another form of physical addiction is the phenomenon of overreaction by the brain to
drugs (or to cues associated with the drugs). An alcoholic walking into a bar, for instance, will feel an extra pull to have a drink because of these cues.
Ok, now while this is a very real and debilitating consequence of using/abusing drugs/alcohol, it is hardly irreversible and therefore not some kind of terminal disease!
Now is it easy? HELL NO, but once you make the decision to overcome your addiction, its simply, from a physical standpoint, a matter of enduring the pain and discomfort from withdrawal.
Withdrawal can be one of the most horrid experiences of your life and dangerous as well, so you should seek medical help before you take it on.
OK, now on to the mental part of addiction.
From that same article on www.psychology.com, addiction is defined as follows;
Addiction is a condition that results when a person ingests a substance (alcohol, cocaine, nicotine) or engages in an activity (gambling) that can be pleasurable but the continued use of which becomes compulsive and interferes with ordinary life responsibilities, such as work or relationships, or health. Users may not be aware that their behavior is out of control and causing problems for themselves and others.
However, most addictive behavior is not related to either physical tolerance or exposure to cues. People compulsively use drugs, gamble, or shop nearly always in reaction to being emotionally stressed, whether or not they have a physical addiction. Since these psychologically based addictions are not based on drug or
brain effects, they can account for why people frequently switch addictive actions from one drug to a completely different kind of drug, or even to a non-drug behavior. The focus of the addiction isn't what matters; it's the need to take action under certain kinds of stress. Treating this kind of addiction requires an understanding of how it works psychologically.
A condition is not a disease but is still nonetheless very real. Emotionally stressed is a bit vague but I agree that for most people, besides the physical addiction, there is also this mental component and that that component should be more accurately call a DEPENDENCY
I agree that for many if not most alcoholics, their dependency is a result of and a response to underlying issues and/or internal pain and suffering
From medicalnewstoday.com When a person is addicted to something they cannot control how they use it, and become dependent on it to cope with daily life.
I agree wholeheartedly and these dependencies that are composed of underlying stresses, issues, internal pain or whatever you want to call it, need to be uncovered, addressed and overcome.
Thats what part two of The Freedom to Recover is all about. You dont need to surrender your will or admit powerlessness but rather do the exact opposite. You need to utilize methods that will empower you to recreate your view of the world and your ability to deal with these underlying factors.
People are doing every day and so can you!
Peace out,
Rolf Ankermann
When having this debate, many times the other person will say, Ok, well if its not a disease, then it most definitely is an ADDICTION
While addiction is real, I dont care for the word because it also implies a state in which the person has no control over it. So, lets take a look at what constitutes this much misunderstood word.
Addiction, when discussing alcohol or drugs, clearly has two very different components, one physical and one mental. Now there are addictions that only have the mental component (gambling, shopping, etc) and Ill touch on those later, but for now well concern ourselves with just substance addiction.
With regards to the physical aspect of it, if you go to www.psychology.com and click on the tab Psych
Basics and then click on addiction you will find the following in the body of the article;
The word addiction is used in several different ways. One definition describes physical addiction. This is a biological state in which the body adapts to the presence of a drug so that drug no longer has the same effect; this is known as tolerance. Because of tolerance, there is a biological reaction when the drug is withdrawn. Another form of physical addiction is the phenomenon of overreaction by the brain to
drugs (or to cues associated with the drugs). An alcoholic walking into a bar, for instance, will feel an extra pull to have a drink because of these cues.
Ok, now while this is a very real and debilitating consequence of using/abusing drugs/alcohol, it is hardly irreversible and therefore not some kind of terminal disease!
Now is it easy? HELL NO, but once you make the decision to overcome your addiction, its simply, from a physical standpoint, a matter of enduring the pain and discomfort from withdrawal.
Withdrawal can be one of the most horrid experiences of your life and dangerous as well, so you should seek medical help before you take it on.
OK, now on to the mental part of addiction.
From that same article on www.psychology.com, addiction is defined as follows;
Addiction is a condition that results when a person ingests a substance (alcohol, cocaine, nicotine) or engages in an activity (gambling) that can be pleasurable but the continued use of which becomes compulsive and interferes with ordinary life responsibilities, such as work or relationships, or health. Users may not be aware that their behavior is out of control and causing problems for themselves and others.
However, most addictive behavior is not related to either physical tolerance or exposure to cues. People compulsively use drugs, gamble, or shop nearly always in reaction to being emotionally stressed, whether or not they have a physical addiction. Since these psychologically based addictions are not based on drug or
brain effects, they can account for why people frequently switch addictive actions from one drug to a completely different kind of drug, or even to a non-drug behavior. The focus of the addiction isn't what matters; it's the need to take action under certain kinds of stress. Treating this kind of addiction requires an understanding of how it works psychologically.
A condition is not a disease but is still nonetheless very real. Emotionally stressed is a bit vague but I agree that for most people, besides the physical addiction, there is also this mental component and that that component should be more accurately call a DEPENDENCY
I agree that for many if not most alcoholics, their dependency is a result of and a response to underlying issues and/or internal pain and suffering
From medicalnewstoday.com When a person is addicted to something they cannot control how they use it, and become dependent on it to cope with daily life.
I agree wholeheartedly and these dependencies that are composed of underlying stresses, issues, internal pain or whatever you want to call it, need to be uncovered, addressed and overcome.
Thats what part two of The Freedom to Recover is all about. You dont need to surrender your will or admit powerlessness but rather do the exact opposite. You need to utilize methods that will empower you to recreate your view of the world and your ability to deal with these underlying factors.
People are doing every day and so can you!
Peace out,
Rolf Ankermann
P
Interesting stuff,
I am interested on your thinking on the following statement.
A person that has had a physical/mental dependency in the past runs a very high risk of reestablishing that dependency should they take the first drink/drug.
To be clear, I want to emphasis that one can stop a relapse behavior at any point, minimizing the damage.
I had an experience a number of years ago. I had been sober a good number of years. I had the not so bright idea that I wanted to try a drink that was not on the market when I had stopped drinking. Rather impulsively, I can be that way at times, I did. Admittedly, it wasn't too bright of an idea.
I took the drink sipping it slowly as I enjoyed the taste. Then came that alcoholic type gulp I hadn't intended to take. A light bulb went off. There it is, that powerlessness if you will, as I had done something I had not intended to do. I emptied the rest of the drink into the sink.
I stayed at the party and did not experience any further physical compulsion or mental obsession to drink. If I had I was fully prepared to leave. That was many years ago.
To be sure, I've had the thought of having a drink once and awhile since, but the sirens and lights go off in my head. That I have a very nice life now and why would I want to risk it. I take some deep breaths to calm myself and move on. There have been brief periods, up to about a week, where I have had to do this multiple times rather closely together. For me, at times it seems to come out of the blue, not in response to any external forces. It could come from my brain chemistry as I have the mental condition called bipolar controlled with medication and talk therapy. Not much talk therapy now. Once every three months (45 minutes) and to pick up new scripts.
I have been to a great number of AA meetings. My assessment is that I am using a somewhat hybrid interpretation between yours and AA's position.
The macro data is on "your side" in regards to binge drinking between various groups using different types of treatment plans.
On balance, I have found AA has/is been a valuable experience at different points in my life, despite the minefields and some of the outright gibberish I see imbedded in the AA "program" from my point of view..
However, for me there are some pearls of wisdom to be found in AA.
AA helps a lot of people (5% who attend it for the first time in any given year achieve long term recovery (5 years). Interestingly enough the same 5% figure exists for those who don't use it. The binge drinking macro data between different recovery methods do concern me a great deal.
Binge drinking data aside, perhaps the 5% that get sober in AA cannot get sober without it, and the other 5% cannot get sober without it. Of course there is some overlap between the groups for the people who swing both ways.
I am interested on your take on this.
Binge drinking data aside, perhaps the 5% that get sober in AA cannot get sober without it, and the other 5% cannot get sober with it. Of course there is some overlap between the groups for the people who swing both ways.
I make a lot of mistakes in my posts, especially at the end.
This is how I see it, 5% of the drinking population get's sober each year regardless of whether is was on their own, psychotherapy, AA, SMART, etc..... It could very easily be looked at that the 5% of people that did so via AA would have been part of that 5% anyway simply because they were ready to make that DECISION. I mean, honestly, most people who walk through AA's doors do so because they were seriously thinking about addressing it right? So maybe they were just ready period and AA had nothing to do with it. The sad thing is that they are quickly told they have a lifetime "disease" requiring "eternal recovery". The rest of the 5% who got well that year probably just moved on with their lives as should be the goal.
I am an alcoholic. If its a disease, I have alcoholism. If its a spiritual malady, yep, alcoholism.
I'm recovered. I havent had a drink since March 17, 2011. that's what I care about. Staying happy, living in the present, and not picking up that first drink no matter what.
The rest is semantics.
The limited macro data we have that suggest higher binge rates does concern me though. There definitely needs to be further investigation of those preliminary studies but we may never truly get a fully accurate picture.
I will say my anecdotal observations of friends and people (I'd say around 100 give or take) who I have seen and known in the various groups seem to confirm the binge studies.
Are you trying to sell your book here Rolf?
Sad how? If I pray and meditate daily is that "sad?" Sad that I exercise most days? Sad that I'm very happy? I don't think so.
I know that in my lifetime I can't drink with impunity. Thats clear.
I've recovered. I'm not in "eternal recovery" however, like with any other kind of fitness I need to put in the work to stay that way.
A life sentence? Perhaps but one I'm very very happy about.
From this jumping off place, the path to a contented life can be as varied as there are alcoholics. I have my strong opinions that what I think is based on facts, but my interpretation of them may prove to be all wet or have to be altered if a new experience/fact crops up in my life.
Hell, if I use this book, that book, write my own book, or use no book makes no matter as long as I get through the day without alcohol. I must be willing to listen to the accumulated knowledge from books others have written, read, or not read, what they say, and the love they share. My Grandpa and Grandma couldn't read and I learned an awful lot from him on that little farm they had in Bayshore, NY. My Grandma use to say in broken English., "To each his own." a lot.
Personally, what I need most of all are people who accept me as I am, talk with me. to learn from, love me, care about me, share my joys and sorrows each and every day I am given. And for me to do the same for others.
I hope no one here thinks I am trying to tear down AA and shut it down. I readily admit that on balance it has/is been a valuable experience for me.
There were experiences and things I experienced in AA like in any large group of people that drive me up a wall. I may be guilty of trying to be all things to all people and that's probably true to a degree, but I like to believe in a larger sense it is open mindedness.
Any port in a storm with no locked doors, that what helps me not to drink. That's how I feel about things.
Take some deep breathes I'm a bit worked up.
"This is how I see it, 5% of the drinking population get's sober each year regardless of whether is was on their own, psychotherapy, AA, SMART, etc".
According to the available studies, that are admittedly a bit sketchy for a variety of reasons your statement is not accurate. 5% of the people you go to AA in any given year get sober. And a different 5% get sober without it in a given year.
We could go round and round interpreting what that means, but that really is a matter of opinion.
Actually it was a generic blog post I used on another site that doesn't have censorship so I totally missed it.
As for claims from people that they are completely recovered, that's just not true if you need to "work a program" on a daily basis. You do know what it says on page 174 of the 12&12 don't you?
Spontaneous Recovery is an interesting phenomenon but a bit of a dead end I feel. Whats the answer, do absolutely nothing let 5% recover on their own and screw the rest? Very few people change with no support I say choices are great and hang on to whatever works. The loudest voices on this subject sometimes have something to sell :)
P