I get that Zach...ocassionally we have that here too...people go because they are compelled and then at best they start 'complying' with what they get told to do...or they rebel...there honestly does seem to be a difference for me when people identify, put themselves in the boat and take action because they truly want to.

Maybe we could send our judges and politicians to Al-Anon? :)

P

I'm not a big fan of the 12 steps. But I go by the principle in the 1st step - I am powerless over alcohol, not only when I have the first drink. I am powerless - without help - over my mind ending up in a place where the next drink is a great idea. This 'powerlessness' isn't defeat, it's a ticket to freedom. Once I understand the nature of the problem, I have a way out. I no longer struggle and fight with the disease, and try to beat it or control my drinking, or do it on my own.
I understand there's people who do it on their own, I'm not one who can. I love the support of the fellowship, even though I don't agree with all the dogma.

My personal experience is a combination of AA, counseling and self improvement/spiritual books. Whatever works for the individual and sharing my experience is what works for me. I do appreciate hearing everyone's experience so thanks FuzzyWuzzy2.

I'm quite similar to nelliefay In as much as I accept and identify with being powerless if I take the first drink and my life becomes totally unmanageable. As long as I remain sane I should be ok I use some principles from AA to try to maintain this sanity but stop short of a lot of the repetative doctrin and allmost self flagellation that is to reminiscent of an unhappy oppressed catholic childhood

People who are not powerless over alcohol usually don't get here because when they want to moderate thy can and do

it was just an admission of my truth, if it's not yours that's fine, but it's not me putting myself down when I acknowledge that, my life is no longer unmanageable but I am still powerless over alcohol but it .no longer matters because alcohol is no longer an issue - this situation is known as recovery.

I have to agree with you! I believe announcing you are powerless and have no power gives a person more reasons to feel worthless, shame or guilt. However, what do you think when people say your will power do not work trying to quit your addiction try something different?

I really like okiyoe1's link to the Huffington Post article. That really spoke to me. I need to read it again but I have to admit that stating that I'm powerless against alcohol has always disturbed me. I know that I cannot do this on my own though. I need help.

When I drank to the point of wild intoxication I was rather powerless over my actions, but I was accountable (guilty your honor). I chose to drink every drink I ever took although my judgment while intoxicated was almost non-existent, and my thought process and decision making leading up to the first drink was faulty.

Once I realized that it was in my power to stop and stay sober with some sort of support and techniques I ceased to be a powerless victim of booze.

There are many alcohol specific support groups and other sources of help besides AA and alcohol specific support groups. AA helped me a bit for awhile, but wasn't even close in being the solution in my case.

Its about words, the ideas behind them and what they mean to you. "No drink ever jumped off a table and poured itself down someone's throat." In that sense,no one in recovery is powerless over alcohol.That's what Smart conveyed to me.
In another sense everyone in recovery was powerless at one time or another in their drinking otherwise most of us(if not all) would still be drinking.
I see a bit of truth in both messages and I'm fine with that.Not a fan of the 12 steps either. Interesting post for me by the way.

I think we're powerless over everything. Sure, we can patiently and persistently learn to change the way we react to people, places and things, and yet, we can take proactive steps to build better lives, relationships, etc. If you call that proactive work, "power", so be it, enjoy feeling powerful! That's wonderful. I know if feels "empowering" to act out of choice instead of blind reaction to chemical dependency. I know for me I can't be proactive in anything if I'm drunk and stoned all day long. Yet, "powerlessness" goes far beyond just the use of intoxicants.
While sober, I can put in the work to increase the odds of the desired outcome in situations regarding people, places and things. For sure it seems more manageable in that light. Bet even still, I know plenty of control-addicted, antagonistic, "dry drunks" who might be able to manage their money and curtail their drinking, but their lives and posts here still reek of an undesirable toxicity.
Back to "powerless": Essentially not one of us is the supreme creator and master of the universe, controlling outcomes and manipulating the minutia. . Weather happens, deaths happen, allergies, break-ups, accidents. Laws of physics, genetics, chemical reactions to substances...all of these things I'm powerless over. I can't use the power of my mind to wish that booze affected me like water. I can't stop people in this forum from being antagonistic, acting like defensive, belittling and mean "dry drunks." So in that sense, saying we're powerless of alcohol is just another drop in the bucket of things that we aren't God (or whatever) over. On a simple level, I'm an idiot if I constantly place a depressant into my body and except not to end up depressed. So I'm powerless over the chemical affect there as well. Just like if I ate a ton of food late night every night and expected not to gain weight, I'm powerless over the laws of nature when it comes to calories. But on an empowering note, I can admit that i'm not in control of a desired outcome, no matter how fanciful, and then start learning to change my habits to learn how to work better in synch with the laws of nature. Like eat less late at night. Or whatever. But I am essentially powerless over magically manipulating the laws of nature.
I very much enjoyed that Kevin Griffin article, Okiyoe1. He states it well.
When I'm at a meeting, I'm pretty stoked - and inspired - when someone humbles him or herself enough to admit their bullsh*t, with the resolve to ask for help and to work on changing. If the ego is the inflated problem, it seems like a good thing to ratchet it down a notch. I'll clap for that. It's humbleness and it is progress.
Thanks for the controversial discussion starter, FussyWuzzy2.

Powerless to drink without the problems . You can call it loss of control if you like but if you had control you likely wouldn't be on the message board

The issue is humility. The moment I got just a little humble I began to get better. I like feeling better.

Hi SimpleReal,

Your post was a great read, very thoughtful, and insightful. I am especially attracted to this part of your post:

" But on an empowering note, I can admit that i'm not in [full] control of a desired outcome, no matter how fanciful, and then start learning to change my habits to learn how to work better in synch with the laws of nature. Like eat less late at night. Or whatever. But I am essentially powerless over magically manipulating the laws of nature."

Not becoming too attached to an outcome I desire often is the answer to quieting my mind. I often beat my head against the wall, shake my fist led kicking and screaming to that place by events and realization. There is an interesting dichotomy and interplay between no person being an island and being master of their own ship, in my mind's eye.

In AA this might be called becoming right sized, perhaps? The path I found suggested in AA is that it came from something outside myself. As stated the closest I could get was not becoming too attached to an outcome I desire, which is an act of self control and training (self will) for me...Can that self will run riot and be misapplied? Sure, but it is up to me to correct my own reaction to life not by turning over my will and praying for the knowledge and power to carry out the will of some supernatural entity that cares about me on a personal level whatsoever.

Although I don't believe in such a thing as a dry drunk if the above makes me one by some arbitrary standard then I am guilty as charged...We are getting pretty deep into the weeds of philosophy, but I enjoy lively philosophical debate.

There are things that I can change within this world, and there are things that I have to accept... Sometimes not so simple but certainly not difficult enough to label myself a gutless spiritual wretch who is powerless over everything.

Other than that I have no strong feelings about powerlessness.