James, I know. But you know we can only save ourselves. Thank you so much for sharing and I hope you are doing well. You've got a lot on your plate.

James, I fully know where you are coming from with this post. I got a sponsee right now who I go through this with and I give much props to my sponsor because I know he went through and probably still does go through this with me. For some reason I am compelled to tell you about my friend and his dog.

You I got this friend and he has a dog and I went over to my friend's house one day and the dog was howling. Absolutely howling bloody murder shrieking into the night howling.

So I ask my friend: "Yo, friend, what's up with your dog, why is it howling?"

My friend replied that "the dog is sitting on a nail"

So I said to my friend: "Friend, why doesn't the dog get up off of the nail?"

And my friend replied: "Because the dog is not done howling yet."

Ah the dreaded acceptance thing, well it sometimes takes time and it's something only you can get for yourself. Nobody can give you acceptance.Hope my level of acceptance will get ne through today without a drink.

For me, Tough Love has helped me, and I prefer it. The honest truth hurts, and just made me think much more, and wanted to prove to myself that I was stronger than the bottle.. I understand where u r coming from.. We do not want to hurt anyone, you are very gracious... We can give our advice, and knowledge, and hope that they can take something from it... Peace...

From How it Works:

(b) No human power could relieve us of our alcoholism.

I think this pretty much sums it up for me when I get in such situations. Not only am I powerless over alcohol, but I am powerless over other people's alcoholism.

stephenlee: That is so very, very true that acceptance can take a very long time, unfortunately. Even more unfortunate, sometimes it never takes place. But once it does, what a true blessing!
I can't bother wishing it came much earlier for me ( even though I do ). Today I am grateful I finally got it. I don't ever again have to waste my time and emotional energy on thoughts of being able to manage my alcohol intake. Gawd the amount of time I would spend planning the whole week on one 12 pack. Okay...if you stick to 4 a day that will last you 4 days. That means you won't have any at all on Friday until after work...oooh.. It was easier to plan the work week when I discovered the 18 pack. Of course it got even easier when I discovered the 30 pack. It was all settled with an 18 pack during the week. A 30 pack for the weekend up to Sunday afternoon then get another 12 pack and I might still be okay for Monday until after work. Of course on Monday I would be shaking so much for going 10 hours without drinking ( sleeping) so I would have to have SOMETHING and it was better drinking Listerine instead of smelling like beer and well Tuesday wouldn't be as bad as Monday but it still wouldn't be good so now I had to manage my Listerine intake cuz you know they only sell the large bottles in the grocery store and it's pretty embarrassing to be buying 2 large bottles a week so now I had to manage how many times I would go to that store. Well ya gotta save face, ya know?
It was like FREEDOM when I finally accepted the real truth. Better than freedom. I don't even know how to describe it. I don't think there are any words. Perhaps the Grace of God says it best for me.

That is what makes me sad too, is that some of these people will have to learn the hard way if they do learn at all, it's not a pretty picture with alcoholism, all kinds of wacked out creepy crap can happen.It starts taking things from you a bit at a time.

Oh yeah, I understand that frustration all to well. In my profession I work with lots of adolescents, and geez for years I would be all in knots wanting to safe them from themselves. One day I had an insight that helped me... I love fairy tales, and the Jungian anaylsis of fairy tales... in lots of tales, the main character is on a quest of sorts and many times they encounter "animal friends" or guiding figures along the way, that never control the person, but offer support or wisdom but set back and allow the character to follow their path. I decided that is my role with these guys... I can love them, pray for them, but I'm just have a "small supporting role," in the story of their life and on their life journey. Sometimes all we can do is try to water the good seeds and pray for them. Take care!

Some are sicker than others.
Acceptance is key.

James-
I know all we want t do is help others, especially the young, so they dont suffer as we have and do. But you can make any one hear when they arent ready to give up what then don't need.
Young folks are tough because as you know from experience they think they are invincible and time never ends.
Thanks for sharing, your honesty is wonderful, next time don't hold back so you don't have to feel disappointed later. The truth hurts at times, it was hard for us as it will be for others.
Thanks so much for sharing.

BL

Only a few times have I tried to help young people here on DS

Generally I avoid it - I genuinely believe that this kind of on line help for them is best coming from other young people

Its not to say an older wiser word cant help but I think this may be best coming from people they know or meet

Lets face it - how much time did we have for older pople's opinions on our lifestyle when we were young?

But I do applaud you for trying to help

JAMES,
SOMETIMES WE FORGET WE USED TO KNOW IT ALL TO AND HAD TO UNFORTUNATELY GO THROUGH THE HARD SCHOOL OF KNOCKS...I GIVE ADVICE WHEN ASKED BUT ALSO TELL CERTAIN PEOPLE DON'T ASK ME QUESTIONS YOU DONT WANT THE ANSWER TO.
ALL THE BEST,
LEANNNAPLES

James, oh how I hear your frustration. I had a similar post up about frustration in helping others...what I gathered is that just letting the active alcoholic know you understand what they are going through and are there for them is sometimes just enough. Maybe 10 years down the line they will remember something said by a person in recovery that struck a nerve. Sometimes our efforts are rewarded later or in ways we can't see. I remember being in my 20's everything was noise unless I heard it is ok to drink. But, there was this one man in rehab that just looked at me with a sparkle and compassion that I had never known, he said I was going to be ok. I carry this with me to this day. Have faith and patience.