Alcoholism Support Group
Alcoholism is the continued consumption of alcoholic beverages, even when it is negatively affecting your health, work, relationships and life. If you think alcohol is causing you to lose control, it's time to seek help. Our group is a safe place to vent, check in, get back up if you fall, and reach sobriety.
We cannot begin to make progress in learning to Love ourselves until we start being kind to ourselves in healthy ways. A very important part of being kind to ourselves is learning how to say no, and how to set, and be able to defend, boundaries.
Unconditional Love does not mean being a doormat for other people - unconditional Love begins with Loving ourselves enough to protect ourselves from the people we Love if that is necessary."
"We live in a society where the emotional experience of "love" is conditional on behavior. Where fear, guilt, and shame are used to try to control children's behavior because parents believe that their children's behavior reflects their self-worth.
In other words, if little Johnny is a well-behaved, "good boy," then his parents are good people. If Johnny acts out, and misbehaves, then there is something wrong with his parents. ("He doesn't come from a good family.")
What the family dynamics research shows is that it is actually the good child - the family hero role -who is the most emotionally dishonest and out of touch with him/herself, while the acting-out child - the scapegoat - is the most emotionally honest child in the dysfunctional family."
(All quotes in this color are from Codependence: The Dance of Wounded Souls)
Enabling is a term used in 12 step recovery to describe the behavior of family members, or other loved ones, who rescue an alcoholic or drug addict from the consequences of their own self destructive behavior. It also relates to rescuing anyone who is caught up in any of the compulsive and/or addictive self destructive behaviors that are symptoms of codependency: gambling; spending; eating disorders; sexual or relationship addictions; inability to hold a job; etc.
Codependency recovery is in one sense growing up. As long as we are caught in unconscious reaction to our childhood wounding we cannot become mature responsible adults capable of healthy, Truly Loving relationships. The person who is caught up in self destructive compulsive/addictive behavior patterns behaves in an immature and irresponsible manner.
[As I note often in my writing, codependency involves extremes of behavior. The immature, irresponsible, self destructive codependent is one extreme of the spectrum - usually the person who is genetically an addictive personality. At the other extreme, is the codependent who is over responsible and/or other focused - and can appear to be very mature and successful, with no need of being rescued. This is often the adult who as a child was being the parent in the family - rescuing and taking care of their own immature parents from a very young age. The family hero or caretaker who defines themselves by external accomplishments, popularity, possessions, superiority to others, etc. This person can be a workaholic, or exercise/health fanatic, or religion addict, or a professional caretaker (therapist, nurse, etc.), or "kind hearted" martyr (who is passively controlling by avoiding conflict and thus set up to be the "wronged" victim) - some type of controlling personality who feels superior to others based upon their seeming ability to be in control of their lives according to certain external criteria. The external criteria can range from being financially successful to being successful in never getting angry - and are dysfunctional codependent measures of worth based upon comparison to, upon feeling superior to, other people. These varieties of codependency are not capable of healthy, Truly Loving relationships either.]
A person who is acting out self destructively has no reason to change if they do not ever suffer major consequences for their behavior. If they are rescued from consequences, they are enabled to continue practicing their addiction.
I celebrated my sobriety anniversary on January 3rd. I have now been clean and sober for over 18 years. The reason I got clean and sober was because my parents did an intervention on me and set a boundary that they would not rescue me financially one more time.
An intervention is a confrontation of self destructive behavior by the addicts loved ones. It is often professionally facilitated - although that is not a necessary requirement. It involves the family and friends of an alcoholic/addict confronting the self destructive behavior and setting boundaries with the person. It is sometimes described as an example of "tough love."
Tough love is a misnomer. Love that does not include boundaries is not Truly Love - it is enmeshment, it is emotional vampirism. If I do not Love myself enough to have boundaries to protect myself from the behavior of others than I am not capable of relating to other people in a healthy Loving manner. Rescuing another from their own self destructive behavior is not Loving - and it is co-dependently dishonest.
When we are reacting out of our codependency, unconsciously reacting out of our childhood emotional wounds and programming, then we are not capable of being honest with ourselves or others. A codependent doesn't rescue or try to save someone they "love" for the other persons benefit - they do it for themselves. A parent who keeps rescuing a child from self destructive behavior is on some level trying to be loving - but at the deepest level they are trying to rescue themselves from the pain of seeing their child destroy themselves. They are being selfish - which is human and normal - but they are doing it dishonestly by telling themselves they are doing it for the other person. This is a set up to feel victimized - and to abuse and shame the child/loved one for their behavior. "How can you do this to me after all I have done for you?"
One of the important distinctions to learn in recovery, is how to draw a boundary between being and behavior. We can love a person's being and still protect ourselves from their behavior if that is necessary. To think that loving someone means we have to accept being abused by them is dysfunctional - and it demonstrates a lack of Love for our self. If we do not know how to be Loving to our self, then we cannot Truly Love another person in a healthy way. If we do not honor our self, show respect for our self, by having boundaries - then the other person is not going to respect us.
Rescuing someone who is actively practicing addiction of some kind, is enabling. It is dysfunctional because it supports the person in continuing to practice their addiction. A person in recovery working on getting healthier may need some help from time to time - and that is great, that is being supportive in a positive manner. Helping someone to continue to self destruct is not support, it is codependency - it is also not Loving.
Robert B.
Unconditional Love does not mean being a doormat for other people - unconditional Love begins with Loving ourselves enough to protect ourselves from the people we Love if that is necessary."
"We live in a society where the emotional experience of "love" is conditional on behavior. Where fear, guilt, and shame are used to try to control children's behavior because parents believe that their children's behavior reflects their self-worth.
In other words, if little Johnny is a well-behaved, "good boy," then his parents are good people. If Johnny acts out, and misbehaves, then there is something wrong with his parents. ("He doesn't come from a good family.")
What the family dynamics research shows is that it is actually the good child - the family hero role -who is the most emotionally dishonest and out of touch with him/herself, while the acting-out child - the scapegoat - is the most emotionally honest child in the dysfunctional family."
(All quotes in this color are from Codependence: The Dance of Wounded Souls)
Enabling is a term used in 12 step recovery to describe the behavior of family members, or other loved ones, who rescue an alcoholic or drug addict from the consequences of their own self destructive behavior. It also relates to rescuing anyone who is caught up in any of the compulsive and/or addictive self destructive behaviors that are symptoms of codependency: gambling; spending; eating disorders; sexual or relationship addictions; inability to hold a job; etc.
Codependency recovery is in one sense growing up. As long as we are caught in unconscious reaction to our childhood wounding we cannot become mature responsible adults capable of healthy, Truly Loving relationships. The person who is caught up in self destructive compulsive/addictive behavior patterns behaves in an immature and irresponsible manner.
[As I note often in my writing, codependency involves extremes of behavior. The immature, irresponsible, self destructive codependent is one extreme of the spectrum - usually the person who is genetically an addictive personality. At the other extreme, is the codependent who is over responsible and/or other focused - and can appear to be very mature and successful, with no need of being rescued. This is often the adult who as a child was being the parent in the family - rescuing and taking care of their own immature parents from a very young age. The family hero or caretaker who defines themselves by external accomplishments, popularity, possessions, superiority to others, etc. This person can be a workaholic, or exercise/health fanatic, or religion addict, or a professional caretaker (therapist, nurse, etc.), or "kind hearted" martyr (who is passively controlling by avoiding conflict and thus set up to be the "wronged" victim) - some type of controlling personality who feels superior to others based upon their seeming ability to be in control of their lives according to certain external criteria. The external criteria can range from being financially successful to being successful in never getting angry - and are dysfunctional codependent measures of worth based upon comparison to, upon feeling superior to, other people. These varieties of codependency are not capable of healthy, Truly Loving relationships either.]
A person who is acting out self destructively has no reason to change if they do not ever suffer major consequences for their behavior. If they are rescued from consequences, they are enabled to continue practicing their addiction.
I celebrated my sobriety anniversary on January 3rd. I have now been clean and sober for over 18 years. The reason I got clean and sober was because my parents did an intervention on me and set a boundary that they would not rescue me financially one more time.
An intervention is a confrontation of self destructive behavior by the addicts loved ones. It is often professionally facilitated - although that is not a necessary requirement. It involves the family and friends of an alcoholic/addict confronting the self destructive behavior and setting boundaries with the person. It is sometimes described as an example of "tough love."
Tough love is a misnomer. Love that does not include boundaries is not Truly Love - it is enmeshment, it is emotional vampirism. If I do not Love myself enough to have boundaries to protect myself from the behavior of others than I am not capable of relating to other people in a healthy Loving manner. Rescuing another from their own self destructive behavior is not Loving - and it is co-dependently dishonest.
When we are reacting out of our codependency, unconsciously reacting out of our childhood emotional wounds and programming, then we are not capable of being honest with ourselves or others. A codependent doesn't rescue or try to save someone they "love" for the other persons benefit - they do it for themselves. A parent who keeps rescuing a child from self destructive behavior is on some level trying to be loving - but at the deepest level they are trying to rescue themselves from the pain of seeing their child destroy themselves. They are being selfish - which is human and normal - but they are doing it dishonestly by telling themselves they are doing it for the other person. This is a set up to feel victimized - and to abuse and shame the child/loved one for their behavior. "How can you do this to me after all I have done for you?"
One of the important distinctions to learn in recovery, is how to draw a boundary between being and behavior. We can love a person's being and still protect ourselves from their behavior if that is necessary. To think that loving someone means we have to accept being abused by them is dysfunctional - and it demonstrates a lack of Love for our self. If we do not know how to be Loving to our self, then we cannot Truly Love another person in a healthy way. If we do not honor our self, show respect for our self, by having boundaries - then the other person is not going to respect us.
Rescuing someone who is actively practicing addiction of some kind, is enabling. It is dysfunctional because it supports the person in continuing to practice their addiction. A person in recovery working on getting healthier may need some help from time to time - and that is great, that is being supportive in a positive manner. Helping someone to continue to self destruct is not support, it is codependency - it is also not Loving.
Robert B.
"When you are awake the dream is gone...
When you are Enlightened the 'world of illusion' is gone...
...and the TRUTH will make you FREE."
"There is no religion higher than TRUTH"
Barefoote
I'm no longer convinced that we all have the same disease or that we're all capable of even wanting permanent sobriety. Those of us who do, and who started off at that level of unconditional desperation, often make mistaken assumptions about other self-described alcoholics and what they're looking for in terms of support. I've made that mistake many times here, but I'm still not convinced it's something I need to apologize for.
Many drink again periodically after putting anywhere from a few months to a few years of dry time together, and then bounce right back again and again as if this was par for the course and nothing earth-shattering had happened.
But I, for one, can't do that. If I were to drink again, the thought of starting over would be so overwhelming that I probably wouldn't even try. So I've had to learn a whole new set of values and manners here that are very different from the ones I got accustomed to in AA where, at least in my neck of the woods, wanting permanent sobriety is still the name of the game.
I've been posting here since July of '08 and most of the time I still feel like the bull in the china shop. As much as I hesitate to label this forum as a mutual support group for drinkers who want to take an occasional breather between binges, in reality that's what sets the standard of etiquette on most of the threads here.
It's not so much that we who've wanted permanent sobriety from the beginning are trying to be tough about it. It's more like we speak a different language altogether, a language of ego-deflation in depth based on our perception of alcoholism as a progressve and fatal disease, and often we don't even realize how much this smacks of cruelty or bullying to those who have less urgent priorities.
But I have ask again, is this just an opinion that we should keep to ourselves, and should we keep bending over backwards to be nice?
As the BB says, I really do feel as though I have found much of heaven and been rocketed into a fourth dimension. But I learned in my first week here in July of '08 to be very careful how I say that, because my inbox was soon flooded with PM's telling me I was way out of line here by saying such things and was, furthermore, a fraud, a charlatan and a mind-fuck.
But hey, with flattery like that, i know I must be doing SOMEthing right.
have you ever split the wealth in your pocket with a needy soul who asks? i think the secret is knowing the wealth you hold in heart.....nothing else matters
and by the way nemo...............i thrive on :flaky.... LOL
often times they do not understand what drives the individuals in their families to behave in manners unbecoming to society. They appear to be in states of denial that warrent years of therapy. these individuals carry shame, guilt, remorse, and a host of other feelings. I must say If little Johnny acts out it is not a reflection on his parents because society deems them unfit, maybe, just maybe little johnny has an issue that has nothing to do with parenting, but stages of developement. this is the same society that said all people are created equal until we decide that they are not equal! this is the same society that said punishing your child for bad behaviors is not humane, and punishable by law, yet they send people into foreign lands to slaughter others, and return home to get injustice, and inhumane treatment from the individuals they went to protect, and die for. let's not forget that many return with addiction/ alcholism that they did not have before they left.
tough love should be given to individuals that are in need of it. if I am an alcholic, and behave in the manner of an alcholic I should be treated like someone with an illness, not a reject. this disease is baffling to normal people, but not to other alcholics. we know when to apply tough love, and detatch with love. if i believe a power greater than myself can restore me to sanity then i should believe that it will/can restore others. it is called evidence. my inalility to let go, and let god is when the problems of enabling, and rescueing occur. I do not need to read books to understand this I just need to know the 12 steps of recovery. they work, and give me tha ability to live life to the fullest with no resentments, hatred, or denial.We are currently a nation in a state of denial, and need others to justify our feelings. Love is felt deep inside the soul, and many in today's society are so self obsorbed that it is shameful. The first lesson i learned when i got sober was to stay away from people places, and things this included family members and friends which i love dearly. It was self preservation to the fullest extent. No bullshit allowed.
thanks for allowing me to ramble
Connecticut
Great points and please keep ramblin' on!
One of the things that finally pushed me to the edge was the realization that my chief rescuer & enabler (my older sister in my case) had plans to get me committed to the State loony bin at Fairfield Hills, after which she could then invoke under CT law to have me declared incompetent to manage my own affairs as an adult and herself appointed by the courts as my legal guardian. This would have given her lifetime control of every dime I had then or might ever have.
That's the dark side and ugly of this sick game that so many of us never see. The rescuers fully expect to be paid back for what they do, and the contract is in effect for the rest of our lives.
Some say this is a wonderful place for self-aggrandizement.
I am of the latter group..... Billy, why would you continue over the past six months to constantly resurrect this controversial topic?
A self-centered personality is what I think.
Speak to your sponsor or your higher power about this tendency of yours and then listen.............
I hope when you go to bed tonight you think about this : You just helped me and confirmed my decision to NOT call myself a member of AA
Attraction rather than promotion..........
Speak to your sponsor or your higher power about this tendency of yours and then listen............. "
But you see I learned help in identifying , is not enabling
Were as , Short sober Times People"s opinion Is , Just that A opinion , with no real Investigation behind it)
Billy
My husband of 25 years is an alcoholic.
To me it seems like it started so quickly, but it really did not. I guess i had my head in the sand. I used to get pissed off at him no matter where we went, i drove, i made excuses, i did it all, i even took care of his blind mother when he was passed out on the couch, or not even came home from work , or yes, called me. I too have had enough. He blacked out one night after a concert which i wanted to go to and hit his head on my brick hearth and had a concussion. The concussion that he suffered with for about three weeks, and since then has no sense of smell or taste.f
Oh ya did i mention the face that he had two drunk driving arrests in ONE year.
That was when the law stepped in and he had to be a good boy for about seven months, that time is over, now and he is slowely going back to his evil self. Not the person that i married, his evil twin. The person that verbally and physically abused me and pushed me to the breaking point,
We spend over eight thousand dollars in one year on lawyers and court fines. I thought that he had seen the light, BUt, the alcohol always wins.
I know in my heart that i have to take care of me, and i will not be that disabler that i was before and my love for him after all of these years is week.
God will help me through this, and had i known that he would be an alcoholic like my dad was and his dad was, i would not have married him. I need to find peace and trust. Will i find it with him, guess only god knows the answer to that.
i live for myself and only one day at a time.
God bless you all who are with me in dealing with this disease, we all need to find tranquility, one way or another,
Caroline