Hello lostnursetoo,

I dont think that I would care much for sobriety if it was based on some of the things mentioned in that definition. It does indeed sound difficult and an undesirable trait.

The definition below is much more appealing to me and thankfully it describes pretty well how I feel about my own sobriety:

And we have ceased fighting anything or anyone -even alcohol.

For by this time sanity will have returned.

We will seldom be interested in liquor.

If tempted, we recoil from it as from a hot flame.

We react sanely and normally, and we will find that this has happened automatically.

We will see that our new attitude toward liquor has been given us without any thought or effort on our part. It just comes! That is the miracle of it.

We are not fighting it, neither are we avoiding temptation.

We feel as though we had been placed in a position of neutrality - safe and protected.

We have not even sworn off. Instead, the problem has been removed. It does not exist for us.

We are neither cocky nor are we afraid.

That is our experience. That is how we react so long as we keep in fit spiritual condition

My definition is pretty simple:

No drinking or abusing drugs

I agree with your definition..." My definition is pretty simple:

No drinking or abusing drugs ". The key word is abuse. If you are able to do any of the above without abusing them.....you are not an alcoholic.

Anyone can get sober physically but for alcoholics like me, for whom drinking became essential on a psychological and physical level, not simply a choice or a habit, it would not last - and did not last - without fundamental changes that had nothing to do with drinking alcohol.

The drinking was an obvious outward symptom of the underlying problem of not being capable - or knowing how to - face life without it. Much ongoing work has been required for me to achieve a happy and balanced life in sobriety. I spent many years in active alcoholism with all the damage to me and others that went with it due to my deluded drunken state. All that needed to be addressed.

So for me, being sober equates to being happy, capable and at ease and comfort without a desire for intoxication. Being sober has to be better than my best moment drinking - and it is. I was a dry drunk for a couple of years, I would not wish that miserable existence on myself again or for anyone.

The person I was drank, the person I was will drink again so I keep moving forward on a spiritual journey and experience.

Here is another Ln....the point being descriptive organically visually and taking on a point of observation based on another person's yard stick based on their perception.... :)))

obtuse (b-ts, -tys, b-)
adj. obtuser, obtusest
1.
a. Lacking quickness of perception or intellect.
b. Characterized by a lack of intelligence or sensitivity: an obtuse remark.
c. Not distinctly felt: an obtuse pain.
2.
a. Not sharp, pointed, or acute in form; blunt.
b. Having an obtuse angle: an obtuse triangle.
c. Botany. Having a blunt or rounded tip: an obtuse leaf.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U56vPV2wqs0

So if you are at the legal limits of alcohol, meaning you get pulled over, and you had been drinking but not drunk. is that sober? Or when someone says, yes he had a drink, but he can drive because that was an hour ago so he is sober. You can drink and be sober, So would mean how long has it been since you have been without drink. I could have one drink and in a hour I would not be drunk. Does that make me sober?

Mmm :-)) interesting.
Everyone has and is allowed there 'interpretations' usually based on ther value system they have.

Since I have stopped drinking alcohol and I have ptacticed living a life without this 'drug' that affected me and disabled me a ..lot -- I have met and came across many

1. Healthy people who do not drink --who attend AA AND who do not attend AA and

2. I have met Healthy and "Sober" minded people who attend AA who do not drink and many "Sober Minded" people who do drinkand who do not attend AA.
It is as they say :-) (and just because it is "said" doesnt mean I have to believe it BUT :-) I do believe its is all in the mind.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sober-minded?qsrc=2446

Drinking or not drinking it is imo my Attitude that will determine how I feel and how I act/behave. Many people I have came across in AA over the years, they may be 'not drinking alcokhol' but, I wouldnt want what they have and :-) thats okay.

I will be celebrating 20 years sober in a few weeks. However that is just a number and if I listen to that I will just be playing to my ego. The best thing I can do is keep on working on my Gratitude for -What I have...and be an example to others --power of attraction -- through the things I am doing ie the changes I make through the steps of Faith I make...Cheers :-)

Really I like 4. I don't aspire to be frivolous, excessive or exagerated. Straightforward sounds GREAT.

I'm sober today. By God's grace I'll be sober tomorrow. I have a shot at serenity today. That's all that matters to this alcoholic.

I like a lot of these definitions a lot better than the dictionary's definition!

Mine would be : serene, at peace, balanced in emotions and actions!
I think the definition that killed it for me was being without a speculative imagination!! I can't imagine I would want a life devoid of imagination and frivolity and only marked by seriousness and gravity :-)!!

Words mean nothing unless the tribe/culture/group collectively agrees on the definition and the definition isnt always correct. As an example, how one emotionally reacts to words based on negative conditioning through brain wiring / neurolinguistics can misdefine words. E.G. The term Socialism has evolved into a negative connotation especially in the USA in the last 60 to 70 years due to political propaganda confusing Socialism with USSR Communism. Before the cold war between the USA and the USSR, socialism had a positive connotation.

One definition of sobriety is clarity of thought exemplified through a moderate lifestyle. Some synonyms for sobriety are calm, restrained, sedate, steady, abstemious, ascetic.

Alcoholics that dont drink but continue to practice another addiction or transfer to another addiction, e.g. smoking tobacco, the #1 killer, arent sober, theyre just abstinent from alcohol use.

Alcoholics that dont drink, but continue non-substance addictions e.g. gambling arent living a moderate lifestyle, they arent sober.

Obsessive behavior that affects ones physical and mental health as well as affecting their relationships which includes their employment relationships, arent sober.

Another example thats rarely addressed is workaholism. Due to the Japanese work culture of which Im familiar, workaholism is one of the leading causes of death, its called Karoshi. Also, sleep deprived workaholics can be just as dangerous as drunk divers and account for injuries and / or death on the highway.

One example of the confusion between abstinence and sobriety is well exemplified by the viewpoint of ExJersyGirl2 definition of sobriety No drinking or abusing drugs.... this is very limited. The FACT is that the majority in recovery programs including these recovery boards / forums arent sober because they are poly-addicted / cross-addicted to other substances and / or non-substance addictive behavior. This isnt sobriety!

I have posted this quote from the book thirst for freedom before on this forum, as I have on other forums. It takes time to understand this simple message, it took me some time to understand it. Eventually with some, it sinks in, with others it never will.

David Stewart, MD from his book thirst for freedom

Few people realize that sobriety is an action of insights and skills far beyond mere abstinence. Sobriety is a creative discipline in the art of freedom of growth and of love. To be yourself is to become yourself.

Love the quote Iconclast!!! Now that resonates with me!!

#4 "Anyone can get sober physically ..."

I could not. I can no longer remember how many years that passed where I drank every single day. I could not get sober physically -- that was my problem. It was so far beyond my reach. It was unfathomable for a long time.

Maybe that's why my definition is pretty simple and straightforward. You do not drink and you are sober.

It doesn't mean you are happy. It does not mean you are healthy. It does not mean that you don't have mental problems that led you to drink that you need to deal with. But it does mean that you are sober.

Iconoclast -- by your definition, I am not sober. I drink coffee in the mornings. Caffeine is a mind altering drug, I have transferred my addiction to another substance that I insist on having everyday.

I don't smoke, but I can see how all those here who smoke are also not sober in your mind.

I will stick with the generally accepted definition from the tribe/culture/group that I am a part of, where being sober is abstaining from drinking and abusing drugs.

I've seen many of these sights sober.. at dusk, dawn and mid Day Sweet!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsZYq-51Njg

Night driving is the shit though lol where are my night goggles damn!!:) a bottle of rain awwwwww