AA has 12 steps and Celebrate Recovery has 8 principles, which are very similar in nature.

AA uses the term Higher Power, Celebrate Recovery refers to God and Christ.

At least that's my take on it. But I haven't used either.

There's a sociological point I hope is worth making again here, because anyone's early acquaintance with AA can be quite an unnerving experience. AA is not an organization in the same structural category as Celebrate Recovery, which has clear-cut definitions and insignia of membership, as also do such institutions as Harvard, the Army, the Moonies or the Episcopal Church.

In these institutions there are formal and official procedures for inducting, identifying, regulating and terminating members. In such organizations, if someone misrepresents the doctrines, mission statement or operational policies of the organization as a whole, such a person can be reprimanded, silenced or even expelled.

This is not the case at all with Alcoholics Anonymous, and it can be very disconcerting for both newcomers and impartial observers alike. There is no Board of Admissions, and there are no background investigations, physical or psychiatric exams, no aptitude, competence or literacy tests, no formal course of study or training nor creed to attest to, pledges of allegiance or oaths of honor required for entry or subscription renewal reminders for extended membership. There's no chain of command, no grand pooh-bah, no faculty, campus police or MP's, and no financial records locked in a safe somewhere that the rank-and-file aren't allowed to see. The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking, and there are no attendance records, performance evaluations or periodic peer reviews required for renewal.

Perhaps the most significant difference of all is that no one in AA, individually or collectively, has the authority to throw anybody else out. No mucky-muck from the central office in New York can walk into a local group, pull rank and start bossing people around. If there is or has ever been a durable organization where that sort of anarchy is actually spelled out in its articles of incorporation, I've sure as heck never heard of it.

That's not to say that mini-hierarchies and authoritarian cliques complemented with their own self-serving dogmas & doctrines don't spring up on websites, in local groups and in the parking lots-- I've seen quite a few in my time. But thanks to our Traditions, these never take hold in the wider fellowship because there are simply no administrative offices, teaching accreditation curricula or positions of authority available in AA's wider, overall structure. I

n other words, if you don't like the way things are done in one group, try another. But outside of those individual groups there are no regional, state or national tribunals for in-house redress of grievances and the dispensation of justice.

Those who require the protective mantle of an official creed, a supervisory chain of command and a higher court of appeals are simply out of luck here. Some may see that as a structural weakness, but many of us say it's quite possibly our greatest source of vitality because it forces us to get along with other people as equals and without the artificial protection afforded by institutional role-playing.

I stress that because the ability to just let other people be themselves in a democratic give-and-take setting needed to survive in AA is a painfully learned social skill for most of us. We can piss and moan and tattle our tales, but there's nobody up in the executive suite who will listen or give a hoot. The bottom line is that those who can't stand the heat generated by the degree of social friction that automatically ensues in such a power vacuum are probably better off staying out of the kitchen.

Looks to me from a quick look at their website that they are a religious organisation that use the 12 steps or AA but have a very prescipted idea of what Higher Power is. They are a christian organisation whereas AA (contrary to the beliefs of some) is definitely not.

It would seem that celebrating christ is a bit of a doctrine. If that works for you so be it. There are other ways of getting sober than Alcoholics Anonymous. In the same token AA has worked well for the majority of people on this site. Alcoholics as a rule really hate being told anything.

I had to look up Celebrate Recovery, as I was not familiar with it.

I can tell you from my very fast glance at their website that I couldn't use their program.

AA provides structure and guidance without a religious basis...or bias. I don't do well with in hightly organized forums. :)

I don't know about Celebrate Recovery but I know from my own experience that AA works if you want it to work. That's not to say that there are not some other ways that work for other people.

No formal structure, no bosses, no list of rules and no fees...AA is a organisation that should never succeed but yet it continues to deliver the seemingly impossible.

Good post Nemorino.

cabledude,

Actually, I was a drunken Catholic fucking asshole, but that's another story. So you can call me an atheist, an agnostic, an atheist, a heretic, a backslider, an apostate, a lost soul, a damned sinner, a good for nothing ne'er-do-well lush or any other label that seems appropriate. But please, puleeze-- don't anyone ever call me a Protestant:)

Once again, black-and-white thinking has reared its ugly head. As a recovering alcoholic, I chose AA because that's what was offered to me in treatment. Fast forward 25 years and today it's clear to me that some methods speak to some people and not to others. Don't get caught up in "outside issues". Study how the Traditions were formed and you'll see why.

Cabledude: the black and white thinking I was referring to was the atheist vs God comments that I must be getting tired of hearing. Of course the different programs are not all the same; that was my point. Each person gets help in the manner that they can relate to. I meant to encourage Europagrl to discover the differences herself but instead I did avoid the question--good point!

My comment on 25 years is not a pride thing, seing as how I'm still an alcoholic and could take a drink just as quickly as any other alcoholic. It was a way of qualifying my answer. I have learned a lot from the "passing parade" which I could only observe over time.

That being said, I'm glad to have had this opportunity to exchange ideas here--it's a great way of learning how to interact with others. That's the last time I try to post on a forum while I'm in a hurry to get to work!

Europagrl: Please don't let our bantering discourage you from seeking help. We went to any lengths to take a drink so we must go to any lengths to live a sober life. As long as you keep seeking, you'll find the help you're looking for.