Nondual theorists believe thoughts arise on their own. That there is no "you" or "I" that makes these thoughts arise. This idea can be seen if investigated enough.

While we all like to think or believe that "we" are the ones who create our own thoughts, it just might not be that way. Okay, so then what?

If thoughts just arise on their own, then who or what determines those thoughts?

It may be that there is One Source that everything arises from and falls back in to. That One Source is often considered by many to be God.

If God determines all our thoughts, and (by default) all our actions, then God runs the show and we are just along for the ride.

Our egos will try relentlessly to convince us that "I" am the one in control, that "I" am the one who must surrender, that "I" am the determinant of my destiny, etc....

So when people say that nothing happens in God's world by mistake, no matter how our mind's label or judge the situation, they may unknowingly be pointing to the possibility that each event in this world (good or bad) is a gradual progression towards God or Being itself.

God is making things happen so that we all eventually find him.

nodp2day

I am stepping out here and I hope ya'll realize that this is based in my personal beliefs and observations. If this upsets anyone then don't read it, blow it off, or file it away for the future. This is what carried me through Steps 6&7.

The Enemy, call it Satan, the disease, or the dark side of the force what ever you want is pissed looking for ways to distract me from my life purpose... helping others. I know there is a war waging in my mind and I am constantly having to check myself... my motives... in everything I do.
This Enemy uses my very environment, it is what one BOOK calls "the Prince of the power of the air" (the correct translation of the word air IS environment). It uses anything to keep me from my focus.
The enemies greatest tool is fear. It wants us to be distracted, fearful, feeling hopeless. It feeds those things and in turn becomes stronger, virtually a full circle, feeding my fear and feeding off that same fear. It walks the earth as a roaring lion seeking whom it may devour. I hear the roar and I become fearful... the roar so loud I cannot hear that still soft voice telling me it's OK.
Through the years I trained myself to believe those lies, to own them and to believe that nothing could ever be better in my life. I believed my past was still my present and projected long dead faces on to those standing before me. I pushed them away even as they were trying to show me their love.
I had to learn that there was a new TRUTH in my life. That for whatever reason GOD saw me not as dirt but as HIS child. Worthy of forgivness and HIS trust. For me to continue to see a piece of trash as I look in the mirror is to look HIM in the eye and call HIM LIAR.
TODAY I KNOW WHO THE LIAR IS and I have turned a deaf ear to him. Today I strive to hear that STILL SOFT VOICE and though I fail at times I know HE will not forsake HIS children.

There is more to this but then there always is.

I do believe that "Nothing happens in God's world by mistake.."

God's world is not Man's world. Man lives in God's world IF he chooses to.

God gave Man free will. We abuse this gift all of the time...

well mycool and happy I'm a big rights guy as you might guess from my screename.
But to me intermingling of government and church money and authority is more the Constitutional issue than a few symbols such as crosses. However, what you see as a respect for God happy, many see as christianity being the government's sanctioned religion.
Tricky stuff. As far as the "Patriot Act" mycool I'm with you 100%. It's called reverse labeling .

I agree donttread, I believe in separation of church and state. This is America and everyone has freedom to worship a Higher Power of their choosing. It should remain that way imo.

For me dreamingtrees it's not so much a seperation of "God and state" but a seperation of "Church and state" which as we alcoholics know as two very different things

donttread

yes, yes, I agree

I think the point is here that Dr Paul O whose story in the Big Book started it all means this world when he said 'God's World' or else it would be even more nonsensical than it already is.

God created this world, therefore it is His ultimately. I absolutely believe that things happen in the world all the time that was never what God planned. These things are mistakes because I do not believe that God ever planned for human suffering, or acts of terrorism. Surely no one here believes that 9/11 was somehow part of the plan that God had for each individual that lost their life on that day??

That was never meant to be and PLEASE do not tell me that it was the work of Satan! That allows us to blame someone or something else for the twisted thinking and actions of misguided young men.

The mind can't understand the bigger picture. What has happened, is as it is. Only the mind will judge the event.

Find acceptance of the event through watching the thoughts your mind puts out, and settle into that part of you which watches the mind.

Who says there is a will? The mind does.

MY mind got me in trouble.

In a nutshell. if there is a force that is good then there must be one that is bad. These forces are constantly offering possibilities. It's up to the individual to choose. The good side offers reward that comes after selfless patience and toil that is of benefit to all around. The bad offers selfish instant gratification that benefits no one but that self centered soul. Again all about choices.

did 9/11 happen because of a faith or was it because of the bunch of virgins they were going to get to play with. Who knows. I only know that I know that I know what works for me works for me. I have proof that I am right BUT it is MY proof. To others it''s coincidence.

Whatever floats your boat. Still all about choices.

Interesting topic Nicky, one with many questions I've also pondered recently since renewing my relationship with God. I'm not sure the sentence appears in any religious scripture, just in the BB, which is spiritual. I believe we have a choice to live by Gods will, or our own, and when we choose our own, we sometimes give in to temptation, and this leads to choices that can harm others. i do believe God sends tests, and that we are capable of overcoming them. I do believe that God sends us these tests to help others. Who better to help a suffering alcoholic, then another alcoholic.

I'm still wrapping my head around my newfound christianity. I don't always understand it, and I'm exploring my belief more by sharing it with others who have similar beliefs. I think I do believe nothing happens by mistake. Whether it be God's will, or our will giving in to temptation and making choices, they are not mistakes, but consequences of our choices, either Gods, or our own. Ask me in another month, and I might feel differently, but today, if we all lived by Gods will, maybe there wouldn't be all this destruction. :}

My belief it is all about acceptance. I really can't answer the question nothing happens by mistake. I guess it goes back to faith in what you believe in and my is my own personal HP and what he, she, or it has done for me from a hopeless state of mind to finding hope. I will say I always keep an open mind because tomorrow might be different than today.

Great post Nicky

JUts got out of church and ran to the computer to find this thread. My pastor touched on this subject today and I thought of you immediatly. He said, that God has us go thru the things that we go thru so we can be a walking testimony later on in life. Instead of just saying that we know how someone feels with their alcoholism, their depression, etc, we can actually say we KNOW how you feel.

When someone says--"Nothing happens in God's world by mistake" -- it makes me wonder if they actually believe that everything that happens in this world is God's will, whether they believe that God controls everything that occurs in this world. I have mulled this over, and periodically revisit this same question, and, I always reach the same conclusion-- that God's will is not responsible for the horrors of the holocaust, 9/11, a man raping his daughter on a daily basis, etc. None of these WAS or is God's will, in my humble opinion. Much good can come out of something bad, and we can surely learn and grow spiritually from these horrorifying experiences, and God's spirit and power , but, I don't believe it is God's will that man harms another, so that we can grow spiritually, which is what I often hear in meetings. Bad things happen because of what "people" do, not what God does. Everything is NOT exactly as it it should be. Where would the need for God be if it was exactly as it should be?

Anyhow-- I do believe--that spirit and power of God is available at any given time, in any situation. Our CHOICES too often determine a less than godly outcome.

An aspect of humility is the understanding that God is in control. There are many spiritual traditions that point to the reality that God (a Power) makes everything happen. While it may be difficult to understand this, the ideas of this reality have been understood and believed for thousands of years dating back to the ancient hindu tradition of Advaita Vedanta.

The human mind is quite limited in its perspective and understanding of the reality of the world. I've read that to be able to truly understand God's plan, one would have to see how everything that is taking place at this moment in time is connected to all things that have happened and are the stimulus for all things to come. But even this would still be limited in perspective.