Adult Bedwetting Community Group
A place for adults who still have problems wetting the bed to talk about their feelings, to discover solutions, and to talk about life in general.
Hi all,
Ryan14 recently made a post on the "Adult bedwetting group" thread that I thought raised some really good points, both on the issues of child vs. adult bedwetting, and on the similarities and differences between bedwetting and incontinence. I thought those might be good issues for group discussion so I'm posting some of the relevant parts of our discussion here to see what you all think!
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On 07/08/09, 12:44am ryan14 wrote:
hey adam , can you ask everyone there if i can join the adult bedwetting group as well ? ... thats why i joined in here as well as incont. . to learn from everyone else . ill stay here for a few days and see what you all decide .
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[My response:]
Ryan,
I think many of the members of the adult bedwetting group are also members of the "regular" bedwetting group, so they have probably seen your message there too as I did. I'm not sure how to answer you, to be honest. We made the adult bedwetting group so that the many of us here who are adults could take our discussions about the adult aspect of the problem away from the main board, so that we wouldn't get in the way of people who wanted to discuss the more common problem of childhood bedwetting, parenting kids who wet the bed, etc. Some of us (me included) still contribute on the childhood topics when we feel like we have something to add, but this way we have a page to talk about some of the unique challenges that come with wetting the bed as an adult. Some of these things include "grown-up" topics like dating, relationships, marriage, dealing with business travel, etc. Would you feel comfortable in a group like that? That being said, I think if you would feel comfortable and if you participated in a mature and thoughtful way, I don't think anyone would see your age *in itself* as a barrier to being part of the group.
However, I also wonder (after reading your profile) whether the bedwetting page, as opposed to the incontinence page, is really the right one for you. They are really two very different topics -- one (incontinence) is for those who have little to no bladder control at all as a more or less permanent condition, and their primary focus is how to manage the condition to keep clean and healthy and avoid embarrassment -- the other (bedwetting) is more about those of us who have "normal" bladder control most of the time (or maybe just slightly weaker than normal) but have a problem with accidents at night. For us one of the main issues is how we can limit or reduce our number of accidents, which most people who are incontinent are not able to do. There is, of course, some overlap between the two, and you will find postings in the bedwetting group (both the main and adult groups) which in all honesty should really be in the incontinence group instead. I actually don't really see a problem with an individual being in both groups, so long as you realize that in general they really deal with two different (though somewhat overlapping) sets of challenges. I, for example, am in both the bedwetting and incontinence groups, but I participate in the incontinence group much less frequently because many of the issues discussed there really don't apply to me as one who only wets the bed at night -- and the reverse could be true for someone else just as easily.
I guess the main question I would ask you is -- is the reason for your incontinence something temporary or uncertain where you still think there might be a chance of working on it and getting better? Or is it a result of a permanent illness or injury where you're pretty sure you will have to cope with it for the rest of your life? In either case I think you would fit well in the incontinence group, but in the second case you might have a harder time relating to many of those in the bedwetting group, since the focus for many of us is on trying (as best we can) to stop or at least reduce our bedwetting and become dry at night.
In the end, though, it's really your choice. If you come to the adult bedwetting group and participate in a mature and respectful manner, I don't think anyone is going to turn you away. It's just a matter of figuring out where you can find the most meaningful support for where you are at in your life right now, and focusing your participation on the places that you think will do you the most good at the present time of your life.
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So..... what do the rest of y'all think? :)
Ryan14 recently made a post on the "Adult bedwetting group" thread that I thought raised some really good points, both on the issues of child vs. adult bedwetting, and on the similarities and differences between bedwetting and incontinence. I thought those might be good issues for group discussion so I'm posting some of the relevant parts of our discussion here to see what you all think!
-------------------------------------
On 07/08/09, 12:44am ryan14 wrote:
hey adam , can you ask everyone there if i can join the adult bedwetting group as well ? ... thats why i joined in here as well as incont. . to learn from everyone else . ill stay here for a few days and see what you all decide .
--------------
[My response:]
Ryan,
I think many of the members of the adult bedwetting group are also members of the "regular" bedwetting group, so they have probably seen your message there too as I did. I'm not sure how to answer you, to be honest. We made the adult bedwetting group so that the many of us here who are adults could take our discussions about the adult aspect of the problem away from the main board, so that we wouldn't get in the way of people who wanted to discuss the more common problem of childhood bedwetting, parenting kids who wet the bed, etc. Some of us (me included) still contribute on the childhood topics when we feel like we have something to add, but this way we have a page to talk about some of the unique challenges that come with wetting the bed as an adult. Some of these things include "grown-up" topics like dating, relationships, marriage, dealing with business travel, etc. Would you feel comfortable in a group like that? That being said, I think if you would feel comfortable and if you participated in a mature and thoughtful way, I don't think anyone would see your age *in itself* as a barrier to being part of the group.
However, I also wonder (after reading your profile) whether the bedwetting page, as opposed to the incontinence page, is really the right one for you. They are really two very different topics -- one (incontinence) is for those who have little to no bladder control at all as a more or less permanent condition, and their primary focus is how to manage the condition to keep clean and healthy and avoid embarrassment -- the other (bedwetting) is more about those of us who have "normal" bladder control most of the time (or maybe just slightly weaker than normal) but have a problem with accidents at night. For us one of the main issues is how we can limit or reduce our number of accidents, which most people who are incontinent are not able to do. There is, of course, some overlap between the two, and you will find postings in the bedwetting group (both the main and adult groups) which in all honesty should really be in the incontinence group instead. I actually don't really see a problem with an individual being in both groups, so long as you realize that in general they really deal with two different (though somewhat overlapping) sets of challenges. I, for example, am in both the bedwetting and incontinence groups, but I participate in the incontinence group much less frequently because many of the issues discussed there really don't apply to me as one who only wets the bed at night -- and the reverse could be true for someone else just as easily.
I guess the main question I would ask you is -- is the reason for your incontinence something temporary or uncertain where you still think there might be a chance of working on it and getting better? Or is it a result of a permanent illness or injury where you're pretty sure you will have to cope with it for the rest of your life? In either case I think you would fit well in the incontinence group, but in the second case you might have a harder time relating to many of those in the bedwetting group, since the focus for many of us is on trying (as best we can) to stop or at least reduce our bedwetting and become dry at night.
In the end, though, it's really your choice. If you come to the adult bedwetting group and participate in a mature and respectful manner, I don't think anyone is going to turn you away. It's just a matter of figuring out where you can find the most meaningful support for where you are at in your life right now, and focusing your participation on the places that you think will do you the most good at the present time of your life.
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So..... what do the rest of y'all think? :)
As far as this so-called Ryan14 goes, his profile says he's "also a nudist" and has been for his whole life. Give me a break! It's even more foolish to think that some 14 year old kid's parents cut their "incontinent nudist" loose on the internet to seek help from other adults. Sorry, this one stinks. This is some sicko up to who-knows-what. The whole thing has the hair on the back of my neck standing up a little bit, to be honest.
Furthermore, this is an adult support forum. Adults are equal to or greater than age 18, end of story. If it's not an adult centered group, fine, but there's no reason to keep it if not. Another thing that concerns me is the "hobbyist" vibe I get from posts once in a while. I don't think it's far fetched either, judging from some of the colorful screen names I've seen, which strangely advertise the very embarrassing condition that people have (supposedly) come here to seek help with, and to reduce or eliminate from their lives.
Finally, minors have no business roaming discussion boards that discuss anything more than THE WEATHER with adults, and vice versa.
As always, just my opinion.
First of all, I do understand your concerns about keeping this as an adult forum, and these are noted. That, I believe, is why "ryan" wanted me to ask, and I will pass these on to him accordingly.
As to your suspicions about his identity, you may be right, but I'm not sure it's entirely fair. While parts of his story could be a little far-fetched, it is also true that many teenagers today are raised in what our generation would call very strange circumstances -- often with little or no parental control, or with parents who are guilty of astoundingly poor judgment. Even if there is only (say) a 25% chance that "ryan" is who he says he is -- shouldn't a place like this be a place where someone is given the benefit of the doubt, at least until they do something that is WAY over the line? I've read through "ryan" 's posts and nothing in there (except MAYBE the "nudist" line, which is rather cryptic and never explained further anywhere) strikes me as completely out of line. (He does speak of buying jeans in some of his other posts, and it's entirely possible that his family lives a "normal" existence during the week and visits a nudist colony on weekends -- which I know for a fact is done, even by some families with kids -- or some other similar scenario.)
Some of it may indeed have that "vibe" that sometimes comes from illegitimate posts, and maybe I'm just being naive -- but until we actually see the "fire", as it were, I think it is incumbent upon us to give such people the benefit of the doubt. Otherwise, we are excluding anyone who may actually be being raised in unconventional circumstances, or by less than responsible parents, from receiving support here.
Those are my thoughts, anyway. I do like MJinMN's suggestion of possibly having a separate group for teens/young adults, and I will pass that along to "ryan14" as well.
What do you guys think of the other piece of the topic that was raised, the difference between "Bedwetting" and "Incontinence" support groups?
Cheers,
adam
P.S. -- Michael, no offense to your kids, who I'm sure are great -- but I think it's more the decline of literary education in general in the present generation. I -- and all of my classmates -- not only could write at least as well as "ryan" at the age of 14, but we could not expect to pass our English classes if we didn't. I know that most schools today in general have sorely neglected teaching what used to be standard writing skills, but there are still, thankfully, a handful of exceptions out there. (For clarity, most of the writing in the above post, all but the first couple lines, was mine, not ryan's -- but sorry if that was at all unclear!)
I still don't buy this profile. While there could be random elements of truth, the whole thing is at best, unconscionable.
I'll also reiterate my opinion that no non-adults should be involved in this group. The internet is not the place for adults and minors to seek support from, or give support to each other, about anything more private than geometry tips. There are too many goofs in this world. Kids have almost limitless support networks from which to seek help, without resorting to the internet, and adults have limitless opportunities in the community, to help kids. Parents and guardians aside, there are organizations, schools, churches, sports and recreation opportunities--even whole professions dedicated to helping kids. I'd be surprised if any parents disagreed with me on this point.
Finally, regarding incontinence vs. enuresis, they're separate issues. Two may coexist, but often don't. Therefore I see the distinction as being appropriate.
I understand the reticence you all have to have younger people involved with the site. For this present page ("ADULT bedwetting") your points are WELL noted -- and as an admin of this group, I will concur and uphold the group's decision to keep membership to those over 18. If you are referring to Daily Strength itself as a whole -- you will have to take that up with the site administrators, but I think there is much value in having an anonymous health-focused support site where teens and young adults can have some of their concerns addressed, which they cannot address in the other areas of their "everyday life".
I don't know in what part of the world you live where kids have "almost limitless" support opportunities available -- but it's not the one I grew up in, nor the one I live in now. When I started coming online to look for support for my bedwetting (which was over 10 years ago now -- when I WAS a teenager!) I had NO ONE I felt comfortable going to and talking about my situation -- least of all my parents or any of the other "socially acceptable" channels that I knew perfectly well existed. I went online because I felt like had nowhere else to turn. Frankly, most of the support systems available for kids today just suck -- they are all focused on "fixing" the kid to fit into what is thought to be a socially acceptable mold, instead of actually listening to the kid, treating them like a human being, and accepting them and working with them as who they actually are, rather than who some adult thinks they ought to be. This, in my view, is precisely why so many of them turn to things that aren't healthy (of which the internet is only one part of a very long list). (Also fyi, I am now a parent, and I work full time in a profession that is a part of one of the so-called "support systems" you mentioned -- and I am in position to see very clearly just how many kids "fall through the cracks").
Yes, I know there are unsavory characters on the Internet. I have been online for a long time now and have run into all sorts in one way or another. Maybe you are right that kids "shouldn't" be discussing anything more than the weather with adults online -- but the reality is, they do. Whether we want them to or not, whether their parents want them to or not, they are doing it and they will continue to do it. My attitude is that if they are going to be doing it, I would much rather they be talking to someone like me than to someone who would actually try to hurt them. I always make a point to try to educate younger people who come to me about things they should NEVER share on the internet -- such as their real names, locations, or any personally identifying information that would allow anyone to physically locate or contact them. But, as far as trying to get support for a condition like bedwetting (or incontinence) which is such a social taboo and so incredibly misunderstood -- absolutely I think they should have the opportunity. This is where I think a well moderated and appropriately anonymous website (as Daily Strength is trying to be) can be tremendously helpful.
I don't expect you all to agree with me, but if you don't, you're more than welcome to stick to the "adults only" forum we have so conveniently set up here. I will continue to try to be of the most help I can to anyone who comes to the site and asks me, and I will apologize to no one for that.
Lastly -- 33north, I'm sorry if this reply came across as harsh to you, but I thank you for saying out loud what some others are probably only thinking -- I don't agree with all of it, but I think it did have to be said, and I respect you for doing so. Seriously. Also, thank you for acknowledging what I think is the very real distinction between incontinence and enuresis -- that's something I think a lot of these sites have a hard time with, and I was hoping more discussion would have arise on that point than on some of these other things. Maybe I shall have to try that again in a separate thread. :)
I take no issue with disagreement on matters of opinion, or on matters of fact. I don't think I'm reading between the lines but it looks like instead of disagreeing with the opinion, you are creating an ad hominem argument, clearly directed at me (by name and by 'you all'). To begin, you appeal to your own authority, implying authority by association, as a moderator, belonging to a profession, and as a parent. Although impossible for you to know why I have certain opinions, you then use an inverse circumstantial argument, "I don't know in what part of the world you live..." to imply that my knowledge and/or experience is insufficient for me to form an opinion, that you consider to be valid. Again, this is just my understanding.
Please note that I never challenged your authority, your moderator status, or the actions that you have taken on behalf of yourself or on behalf of others. I never made any statements or assumptions used to discredit you or your opinion. I never made any comments about this website or the operators of it. I simply stated my opinion (and explicitly stated it AS AN OPINION). I made a reasonable observation about the original person for whom the thread was created, because of what I view as unconscionable elements in the person's user profile. I made no "backhanded compliment"; quite the opposite, in fact. If this site is any indication, you're twice the person I am, when it comes to helping people. I like to qualify people before I help them.
Now, addressing my opinion: It is my opinion only. If you wish to take issue with my opinion, by all means feel free to do so. If you want more information about why I think what I think, or how I think, ask me. Going forward, if you are offended by something I say, or have an issue that involves me, I respectfully ask that you frame it as a personal issue, and possibly consider taking it offline.
Cheers,
adam77