I've thought long and hard about this question of powerlessness over places and I have realised that I am powerless over the following places:

New York - it is across the Atlantic and I am unable to move it closer.

Wood Green - this is a local area and it's meetings are terrible and haven't changed in years, in spite of me not going there.

Southend - this is a 'seaside' place which is basically only the mouth of the river Thames - I am powerless over the fact that it is a s**t hole!

any more??

I understand powerless over people, meaning that I cannot control what another person does or thinks. I can't make the annoying person driving erratically in traffic get off their damn cell phone and drive the damn car! I can't control the fact that that same person thinks it's perfectly acceptable to operate their vehicle while paying very little attention to the road & yakkin on their damn phone.

I understand powerless over things, meaning I cannot control the fact that my computer is moving slow as hell, my toaster has stopped toasting and the heel of my shoe broke off. I can't change those things, so I accept them....because I have no choice but to accept them.

I don't understand powerless over places though....I can choose to NOT go to the bar or to a drunken drugfest party....so if I can choose not to go somewhere, how am I powerless over places? I don't get it.....

To me it simply means I'm not i n charge, of well.... anything.
So all I have to do to stay sober and be happy is to accept powerlessness. Only problem is we are the most power hungry spieces on the planet.
It takes a whole program to overcome those instincts.

The thing is Angel that we are not talking about words here, we are talking about believing something that is so obviously untrue and ridiculous in places. It makes us sound like idiots when we say we are powerless over people places and things. I have turned my life over to the care of God as much as anyone, but the statement simply doesn't add up is all I'm saying here

Well, if powerless and acceptance are not words what are they. As far as beliefs...awh, who is to say what one believes...I always thought is was about what one does.

i may understand a bit y people say powerless over people and things... but places??? i dont under stand that 1 bit...
how can i be powerless over a place... so as im going to spain in a week or so does that mean im powerless over that place....

im confused coz in the day programme i was at , we spoke about that nearly every group and it got drummed into me..

I think the underlying thought in all of this is essentially this:

"What is [the] basic trouble? ... Is s/he not a victim of the delusion s/he can wrest satisfaction and happiness out of this world if s/he only manages well?" (page 61)
"Our human resources, as marshalled by the will, were not sufficient; they failed utterly.
"Lack of power, that was our dilemma. We had to find a power by which we could live ..." (page 45)

I was powerless to make the folks in Spain help me make the sun shine there when I could not make Spain into the rain-free kind of place I wanted it to be for the duration of my visit!

im sorry to say this leejospeho but that sounds stupid, u blame people in spain for not making ur visit sunny... hmmm

I agree with you S94 about the story "Dr, Alcoholic, Addict". However, it has helped people to recover so who am I to say? But it is a story, that's all it is.

The idea that I have power over people, places and things kept me confused for some time. I know today that I do not have the power to change someone's mind. I can only share ESH with them and then they come to their own conclusions. God has empowered me to do many things. I can carry the message of hope as attained by virtue of the 12 Steps and leave it at that. How they take it is entirely up to them.

When saying the Serenity Prayer, when it comes to" God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change" I silently say "other people", "courage to change the things I can" I silently say "my attitudes" and the "wisdom to know the difference" "God's will".

"Lack of power, that is our dilemma We had to find a power by which we could live. It had to be a power greater than ourselves".(BB pg 45)

For those who like to argue.....please don't find anything in my reply that offends your sensitivities. Only sharing my experience. Peace

>> im sorry to say this leejospeho but that sounds stupid, u blame people in spain for not making ur visit sunny... hmmm

Stupid would be not knowing the difference between rainy and sunny, but yes, it was sure "dumb" of me to ever believe I had the power to make anything in my life any different!

This is what I found on the subject:

"People, places and things. We stay away from anything we identify that reminds us of using. Dealers, party/fuck buddies, friends we ran with, or others in our lives who throw off our equilibrium; bars, clubs, baths, certain streets or corners, or other places we associate with copping or using; stems, vials, lighters, cocktail glasses... There's an AA saying: "If you hang out in the barbershop, eventually you'll get a haircut."

I used to have to stay away from certain things, people, places, but that was before I had a spiritual awakening. Now I am free to go anywhere, do anything (except drink), with anyone, as long as I am in fit spiritual condition. Sometimes I choose not to but my sobriety is not contingent on external things or circumstances.

Charismatic leaders throughout history have proved this statement to be bogus.

What also of the butterfly effect? Maybe that is all rubbish, however I do think there are repercussions for our actions.

I believe that possibly what is meant by this statement in AA is as lee describes it - I think it elludes to warning us about being wilful. I take it as more of a piece of advice than an actual fact - try not to go around exerting power over people places and things especially when looking to get something for yourself.

I think in AA it is also talking about resentments - a simple mind trick to play on oneself when feeling resentful at something.

Just some musing from Wales...

Lee surely you have heard the refrain "The rain in Spain falls mainly on the plain"? If you listened and tried to act on that and went to the mountains - you fool! It's hotter and drier on the plain! :-D

I happen to believe that most alcholics struggle with codependency; certainly their families do. There is a continuum here. Some are sicker with it than others. It IS possible to allow people, places and things to have power over you when you are feeding your codependency. It can make your life miserable and if you are alcholic, can feed relapse behaviour.

Have you ever avoided a place because of negative feelings or experiences you associate with it? How about avoiding walking past a house where you had a bad experience? How about getting frustrated with that radio that sometimes works and sometimes doesn't? Have you ever damaged something when you were frustrated or swore at it or about it? When you allow a thing or a place to affect your behaviour or feelings, that is codependency. It can get out of control and take over a person's life if it is not checked.

"In our belief any scheme of combatting alcoholism which proposes to sheild the sick man from temptation is doomed to failure....We have tried these methods. These attempts to do the impossible have always failed." (Big Book, page 101)

It did not matter where I was I would always eventually drink. I could avoid anything and everything I ever wanted to but still my next drink was before me. Our basic text tells us that we are without defense against the first drink. (Page 24) That was my exprience with the next drink always being ahead of me. I did not have what it took to keep from putting my hand in the fire. I always tried it again and again always got burnt. I could avoid everyone questionable or all "dangerous places", even for considerable amounts of time but the drink idea always won out.

I had to have a solution, a permanent solution that enabled me to walk a free man. To shield ourselves from temptation as a solution does not work for the real alcoholic. I needed to be changed and note I did not say change myself.

I have walked a free man since 1998.

Tim