Interesting question.

I used to be a newcomer and now I am not but I dont know exactly when the change happened or how long I will have to be around before I am considered an oldtimer.

I know some people who have been around years who say they are still newcomers because they will always be learning. I agree that I will always be learning but I dont think that makes me a perepetual newcomer.

I guess it can be measured in terms of time and in terms of recovery.

I would say that when we first go to meetings we know nothing about how to recover and go to meetings to receive - to receive hope and the message of recovery. If we work the steps and have a spiritual experience as the result we will move from attending meetings mainly to receive to attending meetings mainly to give. I would think that when we have moved from having the message carried to us to carrying the message to others we cease to be a newcomer.

But there must be a time element too I guess. I know people who have not made the transition as described above but who have been around the fellowship for years and cannot really be classed as new.

I think I must have reached a point where I felt as if I had become part of AA, no longer felt new or like an outsider, understood what was going on more and had begun to participate in AA. So maybe the simple answer is that we stop being a newcomer when we dont feel like a newcomer anymore?

nicky1802200 hit the nail on the head in her 4th paragraph. we learn first and then we can carry the message after we have worked all the steps but nothing should ever stop you from helping another alcoholic. share your experience of your drunk days and where you found recovery and just keep on keeping on.
good topic.

"newbie" is an internet term not an AA term.

Newcomer is normally reserved for those so new to the fellowship that they might not know that it is a spiritual program. Something that takes dry-drunks decades to figure out.

When they stop clucking around you like a pack of hens and you start to pick up resentments cos you're not the centre of attention anymore.

At which point - it's time to get off your arse and do some contributing of your own.

lol huw, thats so true, think thats happening to me!

Huw very elegantly put lol I have read you post several times and can not get the smile off me face

Pg 72 of the BB:

Time after time newcomers have tried to keep to themselves certain facts about their lives. Trying to avoid this humbling experience, they have turned to easier methods.

Therefore, anyone who has not done a 5th Step is a newcomer.

Guru

you really should change your name to BBThumper

btw what kind of balls do you have calling yourself that? i just looked back through all 24 pages of posts in this group and not one was started by you. so maybe AACommentator would be even better than BBThumper

I like to inform the new folks that walk into the rooms for their first meeting that I have good news and I have bad news........the good news it that the newcomer is the most important person in the room. The bad news is that tomorrow there will be another new person, and you won't be the most important anymore!!! Just a small lesson in humility.......lol

I have to say, in program terms, I certainly don't disagree with Guru. Bearing in mind that people did their steps shortly after being 12 stepped in the early days (and generally before attending meetings) - by step 5 you were/are still very new.

The main focus of the steps as I see it is to fit ourselves to be of maximum service to God and others. Therefore step 5 is still quite early on in this process. You are still discovering what your problem is and are not really in a position to take people through the process yet - although you certainly are in a position to help people. It makes reference to turning your attention to others in step 4 - p. 67 - "This is a sick man. How can I be helpful to him? God save me from being angry. Thy will be done." & p. "If sex is very troublesome, we throw ourselves the harder into helping others. " Careful examination of the step 3 prayer in the book shows we are doing this deal not for ourselves but ultimately in order to be able to help others.

I guess I'm starting to realise that this whole newcomer concept and debate would actually be irrelevant if we all worked the program like in the old days - get 12 stepped - decide if we want this deal or not, do the work as quickly as we are willing, go and find others to help - maybe go to a few meetings for companionship and fellowship shortly after we had completed step 3.

Today the focus seems to have shifted to meetings, meetings, meetings. Things have changed a lot I suppose, time is considered to be of utmost importance in place of a spiritual experience.

I would just like to explain my last comment:

"time is considered to be of utmost importance in place of a spiritual experience."

I had a spiritual experience and had completed a lot of the step work approximately 1 year after I came in (still a lot of amends to be doen to this day). That's very slow compared to the early days. Now, seeing how I am ready to work with others in terms of what the book tells me you'd think AA would facilitate that for me.

But no, in order to be put on a 12 step list for going on visits to people who have phoned the helpline you 'need 2 years of sobriety', in order to do prison service - you 'need 3 years'. As such I am forced to go outside the organised structure of AA to find prospects - which is actually what the book tells me to do anyway so I'm cool with that.

But this whole focus on time does seem a bit strange -I mean what about the guys who have ground it out for 3 years and not lifted a finger in terms of spiritual enlargement - they are more qualified to 12 step people than someone ith 6 months or a year who have been particularly motivated to be free of alcoholism? Who would you rather have as your sponsor? Are we treating this like a career path or a means of staying alive?

I'd love to see a notice in our group saying "have you had a spiritual experience and have worked the steps? Phone Joe Blogs to do prison service or get on the 12 step list then"

I personally think the focus on time is a sad reflection of the lack of confidence our fellowship has in itself and the program - I get the vibe of "well he might relapse, so don;t let him do 12 step work too early"

That all said - I am not debunking time at all. It most certainly plays a factor in our recovery - that is undeniable - but the steps play a bigger factor - I guess that's my point.

PS I cheated like the good dishonest alkie that I am and am on the 12 step list at 19 months - sssssssssshhhhhhh - don't tell them :)

I get the vibe of "well he might relapse, so don;t let him do 12 step work too early"

IMHO that chances are he will relapse the longer we prevent him from doing 12 step work

Huw you are very passionate about the program and your recovery please never lost that.

G8

Yep totally agree there.

I believe that sponsors should be taking their prospects on 12 step calls very early on - as soon as poss.

I was extremely lucky to have the likes of botbot chucking me into the deepend in chatrooms with "There's a new person, go and share your step 1 with them". That was when I was only a few months into the program. i've also seen people with only days under their belt, with a bit of step 2 hope, putting effort and time into being there when someone a few days behind them reaches out for help. It is truly amazing to watch.